Today I'm talking with Samantha at Runamuk Acres Conservation Farm. You can follow on Facebook as well.

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00:00 This is Mary Lewis at A Tiny Homestead. The podcast comprised entirely of conversations with homesteaders, cottage food producers, and crafters. If you're enjoying this podcast, please like, subscribe, share it with a friend, or leave a comment. Thank you. Today I'm talking with Samantha at Runamuck Acres Conservation Farm. Good morning, Samantha, how are you? I'm very good, thank you, good morning. I'm in Minnesota, you're in Maine, and everybody who's listening to the podcast already knows this, but I grew up in Steep Falls, Maine.

00:30 Oh wow, that's cool. Which is like half an hour or northwest of Portland, Maine. So I know what Maine's like and I think it's beautiful and I can't afford to move back because it's gotten so much more expensive to live there. So I'm really happy that you get to live in Maine. I think that's fantastic. Tell me about yourself and what you do. Let's see, so I'm a farmer, writer and conservationist.

00:59 I own a 53 acre farm and ecological reserve in New Portland, Maine, which is nowhere near the city of Portland. It is about two hours north near the Western Mountains. Okay. Yeah. All right. So what do you do at your place? We raise chickens for eggs. We have a one acre market garden. We have maybe...

01:26 an acre or so fruit trees that we've put in since we got here. And I raise a small flock of sheep, which we rotationally graze on our 10 acre pasture out back. Awesome. So why is it why is it conservation farm? How does that play in? Yeah. So I built my business on bees with a bent for bee friendly farming. And it's kind of morphed along the way and become more

01:55 geared towards beneficial insects and soil microbial life. And so that's what we are working to conserve. We're working to conserve wildlife through the wellbeing of pollinators and beneficial insects and soil life to benefit the whole ecosystem. Fantastic. Last night as I was heading up to read, because I read before I go to sleep, my husband texted me a photo of a queen bumblebee.

02:25 that had landed on one of the logs or the logs that they were cutting up for our wood burning boiler. And I was like, is it a honeybee? Because I couldn't tell from the picture. I knew it was a bee. I just didn't know what it was. And he was like, no, it's a queen bumblebee. And she just happened to land there. And he was like, I'm going to stop and take a photo because this doesn't happen very often. Right. Yeah. She must have emerged from her family nest and be going off to start her own.

02:54 Yeah, I don't know. Usually it's earlier in the season. So I don't know why she blessed him with a visit. But it was pretty cool to get a photo. I'm going to post it on Facebook later today. So, okay. So you before we started recording, you said it's your sixth anniversary at being at the place you're at now? Yeah, we call it our farm-aversary. We've been here for six years officially today. Okay, tell me the story. Tell me how you how you ended up where you are.

03:23 It was very long and arduous. I was a landless farmer for these eight years. I had gotten divorced and I really just refused to give up on farming. It was kind of the way, the only way I felt that I could become a homeowner and provide a home for my family. So I used the skills that I had and it took a long time to build my income from agriculture.

03:51 I raised bees because everybody will have a hive on their property if they don't have to manage them. So I had apiaries all over the area and that allowed me to build my income to the point where I could justify to a financial institution investment in real estate. So and then at that point we weren't able to qualify with a traditional

04:16 financial institution. So I ended up going to the USDA as a beginning farmer and the farm service agency classifies a beginning farmer as someone who has been farming for less than 10 years. So at that point I was at eight years or so and I was like, oh geez, if I'm going to do this, I better do it now. So I didn't want to go that way, but because nothing else was lining up, I was like, okay, this is my last chance. I'm going to give it a shot and then I may have to give up farming.

04:46 Mm-hmm. So we did we went we were able to qualify it took 270 days to close on a property I went after this other property first and so we were in Closing process with that one for six months before we finally found out that the house wasn't going to pass an inspection and to save my loan I

05:10 I had to scramble and look for another property in the area that might qualify, and I ended up here. Okay. For those who don't know, Samantha has a Facebook page, and I started watching or, I don't know, following her Facebook page. It's got to be three years ago, I think. When did you do all this? I was in search of a farm.

05:37 It must have been seven or eight years ago now, because it's been six years since I bought this place. Yeah, so I've been following your Facebook page and your story for over six years. That's amazing. And I was so curious to see what would happen and how you would figure this out. Yeah, I was looking a lot of noise.

05:57 Yeah, so did you blog about it at the time? Cause I know you have a blog on your website. Yeah, I was blogging about it. Um, and then just to get the word out in the community, I was writing articles to local papers, I had graphics that I had made up that I was plastering all over Facebook. I put up flyers, just trying to connect with someone who might either be willing to rent to own or lease or even, you know, sell if I could make the finances happen, um, a farm that I could take over.

06:25 Yes, so if anybody is interested in the whole, let's call it a saga of Sam finding her farm, go check out the blog because I remember your post just being heart-wrenching and then exciting and then heart-wrenching and then exciting again. So the whole journey was like that. It was just

06:51 Yeah, and congratulations because it doesn't always happen that way. So, so good job. It's so hard to be tenacious and determined and not lose hope. Oh, it really is. And I definitely considered many times, you know, whether or not I should give up. And people told me I should give up. Can you imagine that people say into your face that you should give up this, this dream that has consumed your whole life and your everything. And they, they're like, you should just walk away from it. And yeah, I couldn't do it.

07:22 Yeah, and it's one thing if strangers say that to you. It's another someone who actually loves you and cares about you and has your best interested heart to say it. Yeah, you really have to consider what they're saying in that moment, and like, maybe I'm wrong. Yep, exactly. Because the people who love you absolutely do not want to hurt you, but they also don't wanna see you drive the car into the brick wall in front of you. That's right. If you don't have to.

07:51 So I'm glad it wasn't a brick wall. I'm glad that it was an open field for you to drive your tractor through safely. So that's good. All right, so I'm assuming that the farm, and I could be wrong, is supporting itself as much as it can. Is that correct? I make all of my income here on this property, yes. But that wasn't always the case. Like in the first couple of years, it did not.

08:19 Did it? Right. Exactly. Yeah. Right after my divorce, I was living in an apartment. The only way I could call myself a farmer was because I had those outlying apiaries. I was working at Johnny's selected seeds in their call center, sitting in a cubicle full time at that point and then farming part time. So I did that for three years and then I was able to go down to part time at Johnny's and farm full time. So I kind of swapped things around a bit.

08:49 And then after I got here, I eased myself off of Johnny's and off of, you know, um, outside income. And I've been able to scrape by here on, on the farm. Awesome. Um, so did you leave Johnny's on good terms because I hear they're a great company. I love Johnny's. They have a lot of really fantastic people there. We, I think the

09:19 was mutual. I think I had outgrown them at that point. I learned so much working there, just rubbing elbows with these great minds of these other farmers. But I think it was mutual. I was ready to be here. And so I was taking, I was calling in more and more often, and they weren't impressed with that. And they had new management in the call center. So I didn't have the same level of appreciation and support that I had had from my former manager. So yeah, so it was mutual.

09:49 They already see me go and I was ready to go. Good. Because we order seeds from them every spring, like specific seeds, because we love them. And I was, I was going to be heartbroken if they're terrible to work for. So I thought I would ask. Corporate, then, then you would think they're a corporate office. And so it's just like any other corporate business, their seeds are unbeatable though. And their service is excellent. Mm hmm. Yep.

10:17 I love the fact that I live in Minnesota, but I can order seeds from Maine. It just makes my heart bubble, you know? Okay. So, I'm not sure what else to ask you. Oh, the one-mile trail that you have. I read about that on either your website or Facebook page. I can't remember. What's the deal with that?

10:41 So in our, we have 53 acres. 13 of those acres are up front and that's what I'm farming on basically, like three acres right around the house and then the 10 acre pasture out back. And then beyond that is 40 acres that we have contracted to the government for wildlife conservation. We had a couple of different habitats back there that passed their...

11:08 assessment with the state biologist. We had the NRCS come out here and the different ecological services came to walk the property to see if it would qualify. And so in that acreage there is an ETB trail that was already there and there's a bunch of different trails that go down to a creek and around to this northern large grove. We have a remote campsite back there too. So I've kept that

11:37 open and accessible for the local community to be able to go back there and walk or bike or bird watch or camp. Wonderful. You said NRCS. What is that? The Nature Resource Conservancy Service. Okay. I just, not everybody knows the acronyms and the window. Yeah, I had to think about it there.

12:05 So if anyone's interested, that's what that stands for. I'm biased because I grew up in Maine, so I grew up playing in the Maine woods. I know what it's like there. But I feel like Maine has one of the most wonderful, I don't know, public conservation situations. And I could be wrong, Minnesota is pretty good too. But I feel like Maine just really honors the fact that they are so blessed with all of the forest.

12:35 I think we're all really proud of it. Yeah. It's this beautiful wilderness. Basically anywhere up above like Central Maine is just wilderness. And it's still like that just like from, you know, the frontier days. And it's wonderful. And you can really go and get lost there. And we have so many beautiful ponds and rivers and lakes and gorgeous mountains. And if you've ever visited Maine, I say this all the time. I'm going to say it again.

13:04 You've ever visited Maine and you've only ever visited the coast. You haven't seen. You haven't seen if you haven't seen our mountains, if you haven't seen Bigelow, oh my God, you haven't seen Katahdin you gotta come back. Yeah. And it's such a huge, um, I mean, it's not the biggest state, but there's just so much wrapped in the state. Yeah.

13:28 It's gorgeous. Every time I say I'm from Maine, people are like, Oh, I visited. It's so pretty. And I'm like, yes, try, try living there and then leaving. You won't want to. So, but Minnesota is really pretty too. I've heard. Yeah. I would want to visit for sure. Yeah. It's, it's really weird. Minnesota is like three different growing zones. North is zone three. Mid-state is zone four.

13:58 and southern Minnesota is now zone five. Wow. And it's so bizarre to me because I don't swim in the area that we're in because the water gets so hot and it's so shallow that there's green algae on top of everything. Oh yeah, yeah, ew. But I keep hearing that way up north, the waters are clearer because it doesn't get as hot up there. I understand. And like people talk about...

14:25 big hills here. They don't talk about mountains. And I went somewhere further north than I lived quite a while ago. And so I was like, and this is our mountain. And I just laughed. I was like, that is not a mountain, guys. Sorry. And I'm like, what do you mean? And I'm like, let me take you east about 1500 miles and we'll start seeing mountains. That would be fine.

14:56 It's funny because the Minnesota River is about four miles west of my house. East of my house. Hang on. East of my house. Sorry. I'm looking toward, I'm looking south, so I had it backwards. But anyway, Minnesota River is four miles east of my house and it is flooded beyond recognition. It will hit its highest flood stage today or tomorrow in the history of keeping records. Goodness. And the area that I live in.

15:24 is River Valley, but we are just far enough that everything's flat. Like we moved just far enough away from the river. We're not in that diagonal slope down to the river. And so right now we can still get out of our town by car, but it was questionable yesterday whether we would be able to get out of our town by car. That's amazing. So Minnesota is really, really.

15:51 interesting geographically because it's so different geographically in every area of Minnesota. It's just crazy. So you'd have to visit more than one place there too, really. Oh, absolutely. And Minnesota is very much farming country. I mean, it's where we are at soybeans and corn and winter rye and alfalfa fields everywhere. Yeah.

16:19 But the further north you go, it's like Maine, and it's very, very forested. And so everybody, well, not everybody, because not everybody can afford it, but many, many people have their cabin up north that they go to every weekend in the summer. I see, I see. And so it's like the bottom half of Minnesota is prairie land and farming land, and the northern half of Minnesota is camping, fishing, cabining.

16:48 Hiking, that stuff. So I really didn't, I made a very lateral move when I moved here because the only thing missing is the mountains and the ocean and I didn't get the mountains and the ocean very often anyway. So, so thankfully it wasn't hard on me in that way to move here over 30 years ago. That's good. It would be a hard transition, I'm sure. Yes. And

17:15 The other thing I will tell you is if you grow up in Maine, you know that when you go to the grocery store or the laundromat or the library, any public service place with people, people talk, complete strangers just start up conversations in line. We do. In Minnesota, people are very to themselves. And it was super hard the first year I was here because I was so used to.

17:43 striking up a conversation with a complete stranger in line. And people looked at me like I was nuts. Oh no. Why are you talking to me? I don't even know who you are. And people are very nice, but they were confused as to why this complete stranger with a New England accent was chatting them up. So that was the culture shock. That was the hard part. Yeah, I'd have a hard time with it.

18:11 Yeah, I did. It was rough. It was really rough. So tell me again, you have livestock. What is it again? So we have laying hens and sheep right now. Usually we have some honey bees, but this year is the first year in 15 years that I have no bees. Did the rain last year cause issues? Because I heard it rained and rained and rained and rained. Honestly, I think it was.

18:38 neglect. Like I just don't have the time for bees like I used to when I, you know, before I bought the farm. I had 30 hives when I bought this place. And I thought that's what I was going to do. But then I got here and there's just so much other stuff I need to tend. And I wanted to have vegetables to feed my family, but also to feed my community. So I'm in the beehive one day, and I'm looking across at the garden, which needed to be planted also. And I had to really

19:05 way, like do I want vegetables or do I want this high value honey to bring in the money? And I'm like, I really want to be able to feed my family. So I backed off on the bees and we had for a while we had four hives or two hives or back up to six hives, I think. And then it just kind of got down to one. And this year I'm not investing in them.

19:30 anything in livestock. I'm trying to get finances squared away. We had a really tough year last year with all the rain. So I didn't make any investments. So just no bees this year. They died over the winter and I still have tons of equipment. So I think next year I'll probably get one or two new colonies. Yeah. My dad tried to grow his garden last year. He's in Whitefield, Maine.

19:59 Every time I talk to them, because I talk to them once a week, I'd be like, how's your garden? And he'd say, what garden? Oh no. He put it in, but it just didn't work. It didn't do hardly anything. And this year, we've had tons of rain here. And I talked to him yesterday and I said, you know how you said you didn't really get anything out of your garden last year because of the rain? And he said, yeah. I said, we're now in the boat that you were paddling last year.

20:29 That's terrible. It sucks. I mean, I hate to say it that way, but it sucks. This is the first year in four years since we moved in that we have not had lettuces and stuff to sell at the farmer's market by this time. Yeah, I feel for you. Last year, I couldn't grow anything. I tried, I had to close the farm stand to prioritize the CSA. I didn't even get zucchini. Yeah.

20:56 Yep, that's where we're at. We had little baby zucchinis at this time last year and I was eating them in salads, you know Because the little baby ones are yummy. Yeah But yeah, so yeah, I understand your your pain from last year because we're feeling it now And and not only that it didn't sound like Maine had a lot of river flooding and where I'm at Our rivers are just way out of their banks right now

21:24 So it's been real interesting watching the local news. Over the last few days, I'm like, man, is it gonna get to where we are? And it's not, we're too far from the river, but boy, it is really high. Okay, so back to bees for a minute. Is it hard to raise bees? Is it like a high maintenance thing once you get them established? It really is. And I know when I was...

21:51 I was president of the Somerset Beekeepers for six years before I had bought the farm. And I was doing a lot of bee schools at that point. And all the old timers would come to our beekeeper clubs and they'd talk about how it was 30 or 40 years ago. And they could just have these hives in the yard. They didn't ever have to touch them. And they were just always there doing their thing. And it's not like that anymore. We have.

22:18 pests that have been introduced to the honeybees, we have climate issues, we have habitat encroachment. They really need to be managed intensively. Like when they need attention, you gotta be able to drop everything and go intend the bees. And I don't have that ability anymore. Okay, I didn't know if it was really high maintenance because like we have chickens.

22:45 They get let out of their coop in the morning. They're let out into their run because we don't want them eating our garden. What is in our garden right now? And, uh, and then at night they get fed, they get put back in the coop. Yeah, it's easy peasy, right? It's super easy. They get watered every day. They give us eggs. It's a wonderful working relationship. Yeah. But.

23:09 I've talked to a few beekeepers and I keep hearing about all the little detail-y things that are going on. And I'm like, man, I would love to have a couple hives, but I don't want to, I don't want to have to take care of them because it sounds like it's really high maintenance and time intensive. Yeah, it really is. And the, the startup is expensive and if you can get a harvest of honey, it is a high value commodity and people will pay for it. Yeah. But getting to that point is tricky.

23:39 Yeah, I'd rather have somebody who is already doing it bring a couple hives out, put them where they think they'll do best and they come check on them and they take care of them. Then we get a couple jars of honey at the end of it. That would be great. Give me a couple jars of honey to rent my space for your bees. That would be great. And then there was another question I had about bees and I'm completely spacing what it was. I don't remember. Oh well, it doesn't matter.

24:09 And then you have sheep. Do you have sheep that have wool or do you have the hair sheep that aren't wool? I have wool sheep. They're thin sheep, which actually have next to skin quality wool. So it's super soft and luxurious not that itchy scratchy wool that some sheep have. And they're also a meat animal and I just learned I've had these sheep for, I think I'm going into my fifth season now.

24:36 And I just learned that they are actually able to be milked, like for family needs. You couldn't do like a large scale commercial thing with them, but definitely to feed my own family, I could be out there milking those sheep. Have you done it yet? No, I think maybe next year. Like I've kind of held off on milking anything because that early morning block of the day is when I do my writing. And I don't wanna give it up. So I haven't done any milking.

25:05 But we've always had state assistance, honestly, because I've been a single mom, I'm a low income household, I had two kids in the house, so I've had assistance from the state for food. But my second son is gonna be turning 18 soon, so now I'm more concerned with being able to provide even more for myself because I'm expecting to lose those benefits. Yep.

25:32 So I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking about taking on milking. Yeah, I was just gonna, I, you're gonna have to message me and let me know how it goes because I don't know how, I know goats can be trained to stand still to be milked and I'm assuming that sheep can too, but if they haven't ever been milked, that's going to be a circus. Yeah. I think I'll have to pick one of my, I have a couple who are very receptive to being mick handled.

26:00 And there are some who are less receptive. So I'll pick one of the ones who I know will let me manage them that way. And I'll see how it goes. It may be that I have to start with one of the new lambs and work our way up with it. That's what I was gonna ask you next, is do you breed your sheep? I sure do, yeah. Because it's nice to have something that I'm taking from. I don't use the wool to make yarn with. I should, but I don't.

26:28 have a facility near me and I just haven't made that leap yet. So I've been using it to mulch in the garden. Um, the meat, we take a harvest every fall. Um, and that's what my household eats. We, we eat a lot of lamb. I sell some of it. Um, so quite a bit of it went out to my CSA members last fall. And then this year I'll put some on my farm stand to sell that way. Hopefully that will cover the cost of my processing bees. Yeah.

26:56 But yeah, I don't do it myself. Yeah, it's a lot of work. And to make it pretty, you gotta be practiced. Right. So it's not like just butchering a deer and you butcher it the way you wanna cook it. You gotta make it pretty so people will buy it. Exactly, and they're accustomed to certain things, you know, they're accustomed to it looking a certain way. And there's also like the legality issue in order for me to sell it to

27:25 the community, I have to get it processed at a USDA inspected facility. Yep. Yeah. The government's gotta have a hand in it. And I don't mean that to sound snotty. It, again, I get in so much. I have such a quandary about talking about the government on this podcast, because I think that we need government for a lot of important reasons. I also think that.

27:51 They make us trip over our own feet over the most simple things ever. Yeah, they tend to complicate things. And so when the USDA comes up, I'm like, I don't want people to die because somebody screwed something up. So I guess it's important. But, but I feel like we should be able to butcher animals on our property, sell from our property and we deal with what happens next. You know? Right. You assume that responsibility for your own self.

28:20 Yeah, we have LLC insurance. I think that if someone gets sick, we would probably be able to make a claim on that and we'd probably be okay. I don't know. Has never happened and we don't butcher our chickens because they're laying hens. They're not a dual breed, so we don't use them for meat. So we don't have to worry about that, but it's just, it's so, I don't know, bothersome. I'm not even sure it's frustrating. It's just bothersome.

28:47 that people who are doing things and trying to feed their community can't do it without the government having their fingers in it. It drives me crazy sometimes. And what's the excited thing? They've got the all these corporate interests in there who want to make it seem difficult or dangerous for us to do that stuff at home because then we have to give our money to the food industry.

29:12 And then there's also the government who thinks they're keeping us safe. And yes, to some degree they are keeping us safe, but at the same time, they're also forcing us to align ourselves with these corporate interests. And that's. Yeah. Especially when you have no interest in doing that. It's so that part is very frustrating. Um, so, so that we end this on a lighter note, cause I tried to keep these to half an hour. Um, do you love what you're doing? I'm guessing you probably do.

29:41 Absolutely. Every day is a gift. Good. Cause you worked awfully hard to get to where you're at. I know you did because I follow it along because I love what you're doing. Yeah. I wake up every day excited to start a new day. Who can, who can say that? Me. I get up and I'm like, I get to interview Samantha today. That's what I thought this morning. Thank you. But I'm also not.

30:09 Busting my body up to sit here and talk with you guys doing the hard work. So I'm trying I'm trying real hard to to promote you guys because I'm not I'm not the one who busts my my ass on this stuff. My husband's a gardener and My son does the chores. So like I said on a podcast recording yesterday I make sure that the boys get fed and that they have clean folded laundry and

30:35 That's pretty much my job. And I make sure to remind them to be careful, to drink water. And if they don't have water, I bring it out to them, that kind of stuff. I'm the one kind of behind the scenes marketing us and making sure that my husband and my son don't die. So I figured that's a good job. Yeah. Yup. But to the people who are doing the hard work, I am so impressed every time I hear a new story.

31:06 Well, thank you. And I love talking with you guys. You're so generous with your time and your thoughts, and you're so ingenious on the way you come up with things to get around a problem. So many stories I've heard, and they were like, we couldn't make it go this way, so we went out around Robin Hood's barn and figured out another way, and we made it work that way. I love that. I love those stories.

31:31 Just do what we got to do to make it work. Yep, absolutely. All right, Samantha, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Have a great day. You too. Bye.