Heroes & Humans of Football

Megan Rapinoe is one of soccer’s most talented players, yet has an influence and legacy that extends far beyond the pitch. How did one American sportswoman become such a central figure in conversations about homophobia, feminism, and racism?  This episode tracks Rapinoe’s life, from growing up in a relatively poor working-class background to becoming the GOAT of women’s soccer. Mehreen and Simon examine how witnessing severe drug abuse and her family upbringing shaped her understanding of privilege and injustice. This episode unpicks the polarising views of Megan, which are often at the centre of wider cultural wars. The episode discusses Rapinoe being the first top soccer player to come out (which was actually not too controversial), to being one of the first sportspeople to take the knee in 2016 (which was). On one hand, Rapinoe is hated by president Donald Trump (“Woke equals failure”) and was once called the “most annoying sportsperson ever” by Piers Morgan. On the other hand, she is celebrated as a figure with a strong moral compass – standing up for injustices, unfair pay, and archaic power structures. Is Rapinoe the new model for the next generation of sports stars? Or should politics be kept off the pitch?  Time stamps: 0:36: Introduction  4:43: A child of Trump’s America  9:45: A growing childhood interest in soccer 11:42: Recognising privilege and witnessing fentanyl addiction  17:17: College scholarship and move to Oregon 20:25: Discovering her sexuality 25:59: A poorly-paid pro, viral moments, and coming out 29:45: Intersectionality, homophobia, and equal pay 33:23: Racism and taking the knee in 2016  38:39: Trump vs. Rapinoe (with a father that votes for him) 44:27: Class action lawsuit for equal pay 47:10: Rapinoe’s legacy  Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

No footballer in history has had a career at the top for as long as Cristiano Ronaldo. Nearing his 40th birthday, when will it be time for Ronaldo to finally retire? And will he bow out gracefully—or cry? This is the second and final episode on Cristiano Ronaldo. Simon and Mehreen track Ronaldo’s life from 2009 onwards, detailing his transition to family man, his atmospheric rise on social media, and his footballing career after Manchester United. This episode covers Ronaldo’s rivalry with Messi, his fear of decline and irrelevancy, and his dedication to football at every stage—whether it’s the Euros or in the Saudi league. Is it because of Ronaldo that football has reached a fetishisation of high performance? This is the finale of the highest-paid athlete on earth who rose from nothing—a person who embodies hustle culture but whose self importance is so grandiose one can’t help but mock it. Time stamps: 0:36: Ronaldo joins Real Madrid 5:05: Rivalry with Messi 9:11: Perfect life, perfect child, perfect wife? 17:01: Global icon and social media superstar 22:41: Euro 2016 29:13: Manchester United and Juventus 34:28: Humiliation and personal tragedy 37:55: Joining the Saudi pro league 41:36: Decline in the Portuguese national team 44:11: GOAT status or pipped to the post? 49:17: The Muslim conspiracy and ongoing legacy Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Vain, disciplined, consistent: Cristiano Ronaldo is a football legend like no other. How did this hyper-athletic, prone-to-cry Portuguese player become such a dominant force—not only in football but on the world stage? This episode is the first of two on the legendary football player and covers Ronaldo’s early life. The episode chronicles Ronaldo’s childhood, growing up as an unwanted child in relative poverty in Madeira, and his move to the Portuguese mainland, where he became determined to work harder, better, and faster than everyone else. Simon and Mehreen paint a picture of Ronaldo’s ascent to international fame and superstardom, giving insight into his relationship with Alex Ferguson and Ronaldo’s tendency to always be an individual rather than a team player. This is the first part of a story of the man who takes himself so seriously he has become a meme—and how his egocentric, strict discipline and routine helped to propel him to the top. *Trigger warning: Mentions of sexual assault allegations, marked in the timestamps* Time stamps: 0:36: Introduction and stats 4:01: Growing up in poverty in Madeira 9:22: Arrival to the mainland and showing fierce discipline 15:13: Youth career and rising competition for fame 20:40: Arrival at Manchester United  26:36: UEFA 2004 and a teenager’s determination for greatness 30:20: Controversies and acclaim at Manchester United  39:00: Ronaldo’s first Ballon D’Or (but not the last) 46:22: Alex Ferguson’s infantilisation of Ronaldo at Manchester United 50:25: Sexual assault allegations in Las Vegas *TW: contains mentions of alleged sexual violence that some listeners may find upsetting* 56:12: Wrap up and look towards part two Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Paul Labile Pogba is, according to host Simon, one of the most gifted players of all time. How did an international, record-breaking superstar become embroiled in a mess of conspiracy, extortion and doping bans? And will we see a comeback for Pogba in 2025? This episode covers Pogba’s life and career, from growing up in France and flying under the radar at Manchester United to a rise to dominance at Juventus and becoming the ‘Churchillian leader’ of the French National Team.  An incredibly gifted player whose play style can dominate all parts of the pitch, Simon and Mehreen also cover the dark downfall of Pogba’s late 20s. In Shakespearean fashion, Pogba's brother betrayed him (including a bizarre West African witch doctor story), only for him to fail a doping test after his comeback. Will one of football’s most interesting main characters be able to take the centre stage ever again? Returning to football aged 32, will Pogba see a redemption, or is it all over for this tragic hero? And what hairstyle will we see next? Time stamps: 0:36: Introduction and stats 3:31: Growing up and finding religion 9:02: Underestimated at Manchester United (and fights with Ferguson) 14:22: Success at Juventus 20:20: Dreams of total dominance 25:58: A leader is born 31:20: Racism and the ‘Karen’ of football 36:39: Complacency at Manchester United 39:09: Betrayal by his brother 46:28: The witch doctor conspiracy 40:28: Doping ban  52:08: Pogba’s legacy and future Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

By his late-20s, superstar footballer Maradona had it all: copious wealth and record-breaking transfer fees, a rockstar lifestyle, and a glittering presence at the World Cup. So what soured? This is the tragic tale of Diego Maradona, from his late 20s until his death in 2020 at just 60 years old. This is the story of Maradona’s decades-long decline, from being (briefly) hated in Italy and failing drug tests on the international stage to unsuccessful tenures as a football manager. Simon and Mehreen chronicle Maradona’s later years, including sought-after peace in the United Arab Emirates and constant returns to his country of Argentina. They reflect on Maradona’s legacy among the greats, and Simon gives his own insights into meeting Maradona—the polite man who often seemed a ‘performing seal’. Above all, this episode covers Maradona’s intrinsic links to Argentina—the country that both revered and celebrated him but may also have been the cause of his demise. The episode paints a picture of Maradona as a resistance hero, a victim of racism, and a person who lived under the pressures of both extreme fame and famine. This is the second part of a two-part podcast. Listen to ‘Maradona: From the slum to world champion’ before this one.  Time stamps: 1:44: The Napoli ‘cult’ starts to sour 6:57: The most hated man in Italy (briefly) 9:07: World Cups and failed drug tests 16:54: Simon meets Maradona 20:58: The ‘little man’ worldview of Argentinian politics and race 30:41: Maradona becomes the Argentine football manager 36:42: Move to the UAE—peace at last 43:25: Back in Argentina, and fatal heart attack 49:09: Maradona’s legacy Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Only a few people can say they carry the weight of a nation on their shoulders – and football superstar Diego Maradona was one of them. This episode, the first of a two-part series, covers the ‘glory’ years of Diego Maradona, the pocket rocket who became the face of Argentina and Argentinian football.  Named as one of the greatest players in the history of sport, this episode covers Maradona’s younger years—from rising success after growing up in the slums of Argentina, to stints at Barcelona, success at Napoli, and World Cup glories (and controversies). In this episode, Mehreen and Simon also cover the dark side of Maradona—from routine drug taker and serial womaniser to mafia run-ins, military coups in Argentina, and the imprisoning effect of global fame. What is the real story behind ‘el pibe de oro’ (the golden boy)? Timestamps: 00:36: Introduction and career statistics 04:58: Growing up poor and ostracised in Argentina 12:06: Pro debut and lift from poverty 16:18: The cage of global fame and war in the Falklands 21:39: Drugs, drinking, and stardom 26:14: Napoli comes calling 29:45: Maradona and the mafia 34:52: The 1986 world cup and the ‘hand of god’ goal 50:23: The symbolic defeat of the imperial master (England) 56:19: Private life gets complicated Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special bonus episode, Simon and Mehreen pay tribute to the legendary Dutch footballer Johan Neeskens, who passed away suddenly at the age of 73. They reflect on his footballing career, starting from his humble beginnings in post-war Netherlands to becoming a key player in Ajax’s dominant European team of the 1970s and a cult figure at FC Barcelona. Johan Neeskens was known as the ultimate "hard man" on the pitch, with a football style rooted in toughness, brutal tackles, and the ability to slide in for a tackle like no one else. Despite his rough nature on the field, Neeskens was beloved for his humility and the passion he brought to every match. In this episode, Simon shares personal memories of Neeskens and highlights the emotional impact of his passing on the football world. This episode captures the duality of Johan Neeskens: the fighter on the field and the humble coach who spent his later years giving back to underprivileged children in refugee camps around the world. Timestamps: 00:36: Welcome and introduction 03:14: How Johan Neeskens’ death resonated across the football community 06:21: Johan Neeskens’ rough childhood and early career struggles 10:45: The rise of Johan Neeskens at Ajax and his defining role in total football 15:32: World Cup 1974 – Sliding into legend with a goal against Brazil 19:18: Neeskens’ move to FC Barcelona and the friendship with Johan Cruyff 23:42: Neeskens’ post-playing career and the heart-warming coaching roles with kids 27:48: His sudden death while on a coaching trip in Algeria 34:00: A legacy of humility, toughness, and lasting impact on the world of football Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates: heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Argentine football manager Pochettino has always been the type to fly under the radar – both as a player and a coach. Is it his time for the spotlight by bringing the US men’s team to glory? In this episode, Simon and Mehreen cover nice guy Pochettino’s life, from growing up on a farm in Argentina to a football career in France—where he’s more motivated by the food and wine of Bordeaux than the club itself. They cover his managerial career, and the story of a Spanish speaker who managed teams in England and France, yet could never communicate to his players except through translators. How, despite this, did he become arguably one of Tottenham Hotspurs most successful managers? This episode covers a deeply spiritual man and ‘aura reader’ who rises to the heights of football (but never the pinnacle) by being a family-orientated nice guy—in stark contrast to other authoritarian, manipulative football managers. Timestamps: 00:36: Introduction 3:07: First thoughts and career statistics 5:45: Growing up in rural Argentina 10:51: Scouting by Bielsa and a weird knock on the door at 2am… 17:31: A good-but-forgettable footballing career—the ultimate footballer NPC 27:53: Football’s good, but Pochettino’s about the food and wine (playing in Paris and Bordeaux) 34:33: Pochettino’s spiritualism. Simon’s not a fan. 43:09: Move to Southampton, with no knowledge of English 50:35: Non-verbal communication and call to Spurs 58:36: Rise and fall at Tottenham Hotspur 1:04:31: Move to Paris Saint Germain and a hollow victory 1:08:30: Chelsea comes calling 1:10:57: Move to the US men’s team – what will happen? Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Alex Ferguson spent 26 seasons as the coach of Manchester United – winning more trophies and accolades than any other manager in the history of football (although Pep may well beat that soon…).  Part 1, the making of Alex Ferguson, tracked the Scotsman’s early life and career. This sequel episode concentrates on how Ferguson helped lead Manchester United to international fame and dominance – gaining respect and recognition from world leaders along the way. In this episode, Mehreen and Simon cover Ferguson’s career and coaching style through the 90s to his retirement in 2013. They touch on his style of coaching on players such as Eric Cantona, his influence over the Class of ‘92 – including Ryan Giggs and David Beckham – up to managing Cristiano Ronaldo. This episode focuses on Ferguson’s contradictory nature – from his authoritarian and domineering nature that would be a nightmare for any HR department, to the popular manager that attracted respect and admiration from people across all walks of life. This is the second episode of a two-part series. Make sure to listen to ‘The making of Alex Ferguson’ before this one. Time stamps: 00:32: Pick-up from last episode – stats, scouting, and play style 08:58: A father figure and matching coaching style to fit the player (Cantona and the class of ‘92) 14:19: Managing the ‘night and day’ personality of Ryan Giggs 21:04: Ruthlessness, egomania, and ways to instill fear in players 26:18: Money and empathy in the era of hyper-rich football 35:00: ‘Fergie time’ and putting the pressure on extra time 42:16: Signing Cristiano Ronaldo and scouting new talent 46:10: Nearing retirement age but not ready to give up 54:51: Last blaze of glory and retirement 59:31: Working with Manchester United after retirement 1:01:49: Brain haemorrhage and influencing from the sidelines 1:07:49: Legacy of a brutal, almost political, figure 1:16:47: Applying the Ferguson leadership style to other industries Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Alex Ferguson, the omnipotent, omnipresent orator, is widely regarded as one of the greatest football managers of all time. This episode tracks Ferguson’s early life and career, showcasing an intricate backstory marred by violence, conviviality, and a quest for greatness.  Mehreen and Simon chronicle Ferguson’s early life, from growing up in working-class Glasgow in the 1940s and part-time pub landlord to playing ‘international’ football, and a managerial career (and firing) in Scottish clubs in the 1970s. What attracted Manchester United to this angry Scotsman who took everything so seriously? How did Ferguson build his role as a ‘do-all’ manager that will say hello to the footballers and cleaners alike, and sit on the phone to fan club presidents for hours? This episode is part of a two-part series on Alex Ferguson, and is defined by comradeship, collectivism, and communication. Look out for the sequel, ‘The reign of Alex Ferguson’, which tracks Ferguson’s longtime success at Manchester United. Time stamps:  00:45: Introduction 06:47: Growing up working class in Glasgow  16:23: Violence as a lasting influence 26:17: Welcome to H&H’s new AI friend… 28:40: Career as an ‘international’ footballer and almost-emigration to Canada 34:12: A record £60,000 transfer and move to coaching 39:33: Figuring out his coaching style in Scottish clubs 46:58: Anger, alcoholics, and temperance 51:14: Religious divisions and sacking from St Mirren 56:45: Move to coaching Aberdeen  1:03:42: Assistant Manager of Scotland and the death of Jock Stein  1:07:06: On Manchester United’s radar 1:12:53: Early coaching at Manchester United 1:18:57: The angry lunatic vs. the people person at Manchester United 1:25:09: Everything starts to turn around…  Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In 2010, the footballing community was shouting about corruption. FIFA had just awarded the 2018 World Cup to Russia and the 2022 World Cup to Qatar. Something didn’t sound quite right… In this groundbreaking episode, Simon and Mehreen cover not only the life and corruption of former FIFA President Sepp Blatter, but also paint a picture of the geopolitical changes in global football and the rising power shifts from the West to the East. The podcast features clips from an exclusive interview with Sepp Blatter himself, who candidly reveals details of his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, meetings with Qatar and French President Nicholas Sarkozy, and FIFA officials’ roles in the Qatari corruption scandal. This is a story of power, money, and corruption—akin to a mafia movie or Hollywood biopic. You won’t want to miss it. Time stamps: 00:26: Introduction 03:54: Growing up in Switzerland 08:02: Coca Cola gets Blatter into FIFA 13:32: From bureaucrat to the biggest job at FIFA 19:57: Turning a blind eye or encouraging corruption? 24:58: Simon’s run-in with Blatter (and missing out on a spa day) 34:49: Qatari official meets the French President 37:59: Russia and Qatar win the World Cup bid 45:04: Chuck Blazer blows the whistle 49:37: A farcical election and questions of conviction 57:36: A lonely 80s of court cases, irrelevance, and attempt to stop the Ukraine War 01:00:22: What is Sepp Blatter’s legacy? Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Defensive midfielder N’Golo Kanté has left a huge legacy on football, yet hardly anything is known about him. How did this humble, fame-shy footballer become so beloved by barely saying a single world? In this episode, Simon and Mehreen cover the reclusive Kanté, from poor beginnings in the Paris banlieues to bringing underdog Leicester to shock victory in 2016. They cover his rise to worldwide recognition and uncomfortable relationship with fame as he sees further success at Chelsea and for the French national team. Together, they piece together an intricate picture of the human behind the hero of football. They cover stories of the well-meaning Kanté, who had never been to a birthday party until his 20s, drives a Mini Cooper, doesn’t want to be paid via offshore tax havens, and struggles with the concept of hiring a cleaner. But of course, there’s a more unfortunate side to being the most genuine person in league football – a side that leads to Kanté being held at gunpoint thanks to advantageous agents, and business decisions that seem slightly out of character. This is the story of how the zippy ‘vacuum cleaner’ who hoovers up the midfield became one of the universally-liked men in football.  Time stamps: 00:40: Introduction to N’Golo Kanté (NG) 03:59: Growing up in Paris  07:20: Beginnings in third division French football 10:01: Maturing on and off the pitch at Caen 15:00: Arrival and success at Leicester 20:35: Move to Chelsea and the big leagues 29:00: France win the World Cup 34:35: A ‘vacuum cleaner’ on the pitch and discomfort at recognition 40:13: Surprise comeback at Al-Ittihad 45:15: What if Kanté hadn’t been a footballer? For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"? Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game. https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/l7y2et League Code: l7y2et Looking forward to playing against you this season! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Charismatic and polarising football coach José Mourinho always has one single goal for his teams: to win, no matter what. It’s this mentality that led him to awards, accolades, and admiration. So what happens when the winner stops winning?  This second and final episode on José Mourinho chronicles his fall from grace in the 2010s. Simon and Mehreen cover his arrival at Real Madrid in 2010 to joining Turkish football club Fenerbahçe in 2024—and how Mourinho turns toxic when he’s no longer at his peak winning streak.  Simon and Mehreen cover this new, more uncomfortable era for Mourinho—a time when aggressive coaching styles dominate, and awareness of men’s mental health becomes more mainstream. How does Mourinho adapt (or not adapt) during his tenures at Chelsea, Manchester United, and Tottenham Hotspur?  And is it really over for the notorious media star, love bomber, and genius strategist, or are we now entering Mourinho’s post-Roma redemption era? Listen to find out.  This is a two-parter; listen to our first episode on the rise of José Mourinho before this one. Time stamps: 00:36: Welcome back 04:37: Arrival at Real Madrid 09:30: Spurring on the Real Madrid-Barça rivalry  14:45: An emotional loss (ft. two emotional Portuguese men) 18:11: The end of the Real Madrid ‘revenge tour’ 19:24: Return to Chelsea and love bombing 27:43: Downfall at Chelsea, and the Justin Bieber incident 33:50: Mourinho struggles at Manchester United 40:33: Mourinho’s Manchester United gets left behind 44:35: An ill-fated tenure at Tottenham Hotspur 48:10: A hero’s welcome at Roma (and the start of redemption?) 50:04: Chasing dopamine at Fenerbahçe and Turkish football 53:40: Mourinho’s future and legacy  Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Jose Mourinho is the arrogant and charismatic cult figure who divides opinions on the pitch and in the press room. Is he the genius strategist and saviour of failing clubs or just a toxic coach with main character syndrome?  This episode covers the rise of Mourinho, from his early beginnings in Portugal and Barcelona, to his time coaching Chelsea and Inter Milan. Simon and Mehreen analyse Mourinho’s rise to football supremacy with stories that even mega-fans (and mega-haters) may not have heard before. In the episode, Simon and Mehreen share their tongue-in-cheek, in-depth analysis of Mourinho—as a love bomber and a ‘f***boy’, Mourinho’s problematic takes, and how he has been able to use his intelligence, charisma, and good looks for both good and toxic purposes.  This is a two-parter; look out for the next episode on the fall of Jose Mourinho.  Time stamps: 00:30: Rise, fall, and redemption (?) 4:00: Growing up in a rapidly-changing Portugal 9:40: Rise of the intellectual and start at Barcelona 16:56: Frustration to first big break 21:01: Spotting weaknesses in his opponents 25:35: Mourinho - the handsome, the charismatic 28:53: Becoming the main character – Porto success to Abramovich knocking 35:34: Chelsea beginnings and rise of the media manipulator 43:25: Mourinho “the psychic” 44:43: Problematic takes on African players 47:12: Mourinho the love bomber 50:38: Chelsea becomes toxic 57:51: Chelsea sacking and next big move 1:03:04: Saviour of Inter Milan 1:08:26: Heading for Madrid Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Sven-Göran Eriksson, former England and Lazio manager, has died at the age of 76. In this tribute episode, Mehreen and Simon discuss the colourful life and career of the small-town Swede who shook up English football as the country's first foreign national team coach and electrified the British tabloids at the height of media intrusion into the private lives of celebrities.  Mehreen and Simon are joined by Olof Lundh, Swedish sports journalist, on how Sven's career went from managing part-time players with Gothenburg in the '80 and ended in ignominy after an elaborate fraud involving the ghost owners of Notts County and a trip to North Korea. He was a perennial nearly-ran with England's "golden generation" of footballers, was duped by a "fake sheikh", and led a financially-doped Lazio in their greatest years, winning seven trophies in three years.   This is the story of Sweden's greatest ever coach and a remarkable footballing life. RIP Sven.  Timestamps: 00:20 Introduction 07:44: Humble beginnings and discovering football 13:25: Breakthrough with Gothenburg 15:51: Moves around Europe 17:50: The first foreign England manager 25:20: A calm demeanour in the hysterical noughties media 31:37: An English culture clash 34:08: Love affairs and the News International phone hacking scandal  38:19: Flirting with other jobs and the ‘fake sheikh’ 45:31: Simon’s take on interviewing Sven 49:35: Penalties misery and protection of players 52:58: The end of England 55:16: The Scam move to Notts County 57:43: Naivete and a move away from European football 1:02:05: Sven reveals he has cancer Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Norwegian striker Erling Haaland is making football history with 63 league goals in two seasons. Tipped as a future Ballon d'Or winner, the 6ft4 speed machine seems to attract both rampant adoration and mockery. In this episode, Simon and Mehreen chronicle Haaland’s short life and rise to glory - from growing up extraordinary in a culture that prioritises equality, and the influence of his sporting family. They chronicle his choices to go for growth over short-term glory, and his move to and impact at Manchester City. During the episode, Simon and Mehreen discuss the paradoxes of Haaland’s personality - as both typical and ‘anti-Norwegian’, the awkward persona that makes him constantly go viral on social media, and his holy pursuit for longevity à la Cristiano Ronaldo - in contrast to more ‘stereotypical’ footballers such as Jack Grealish. Time stamps: 00:32: Introduction to Erling Haaland  05:37: Early years in England with a footballer father 09:46: Growing up special in an equal society 14:17: The awkward teen years and rise of the ‘anti-Norwegian’ 19:38: The influence of super-agent Mino Raiola and move to Salzburg 25:10: Rise to stardom at Dortmund 30:05: Becoming a viral social media sensation 34:37: Haaland’s Ronaldo-inspired quest for longevity 40:30: Manchester City and the precarious position of being Number 9 45:93: What would Haaland do without football? Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ten Hag’s slow rise to coaching success seems to have come to an abrupt stop at Manchester United. Can the man who led other teams to glory turn the club around on his third attempt? Or is his tenure simply doomed? In this episode, Mehreen and Simon chronicle the rise and fall of Erik ten Hag. They cover the hyper-organised, football-obsessed Dutchman’s rise from middling footballer to his slow and successful rise to Head Coach of Ajax.  On the way they investigate the influence of Pep Guardiola on his coaching style and his entrepreneurial obsession with becoming a Ferguson-style football ‘CEO’. Timestamps: 00.35 - Introduction  05:50 - Childhood coaching-mindset to middling football player 11:47 - The dreamer assistant coach that thinks like a football CEO 13:54 - Assistant at Twente under Steve McClaren  16:34 - Successful stint as Head Coach with the Go-Ahead Eagles  20:37 - The influence of Pep Guardiola at Bayern Munich  24:31 - Back to the Netherlands and rise in Utrecht  27:45 - Move to Ajax - from mockery to success 32:33 - The iconic Spurs v Ajax Game, 2019 37:54 - Setting up at Man U and taking control of transfers 49:27 - Man U’s first season: Rocky beginnings or stable start? 56:54 - Staying resilient among increasing uncertainty 1:01 - The winning formula to being a good coach Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special Q&A episode, hosts Mehreen Khan and Simon Kuper answer questions from listeners around the globe. From the Olympics to the intricacies of modern football management, Mehreen and Simon tackle a wide range of topics, providing insights and sharing personal anecdotes. Join us as we explore the world of football through the lens of your questions. Timestamps: 01:25 - Discussion on the Olympics and its significance in football 06:20 - Emma Hayes' mixed Olympics with the US Women's Team 10:08 - The debate on a UK football team in the Olympics 15:02 - Chelsea's business model and financial strategies 18:12 - The controversial transfer market practices and financial fair play 21:00 - The future of Chelsea under new management 23:30 - The eternal debate: Who is the GOAT of football? 26:40 - Comparing players from different eras and the evolution of the GOAT debate 30:00 - Quickfire round: Hero or Villain? 33:08 - Reflecting on Gareth Southgate's tenure with England 36:58 - The role of modern football managers and their influence 39:35 - Speculation on Erik ten Hag's future at Manchester United 45:55 - The impact of American ownership on Premier League clubs 48:02 - Fantasy Premier League tips and Mehreen's starter squad 50:10 - The concept of "Brat" in football and notable examples 52:31 - The common traits among great footballers 54:49 - How Mehreen and Simon met and started the podcast 57:28 - Teaser for the upcoming Jose Mourinho special episode Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over the past 20 weeks, Mehreen and Simon have covered the stories of the so-called ‘heroes’ of football, as well as the game’s undercover (and not so undercover) ‘villains’. As the duo take a week off to end their debut season, they reflect on their favourite episodes so far, muse on what they’ve learned, and provide behind-the-scenes insights into the podcast.   Heroes and Humans will return on Thursday 8th August for an Olympics special. If you have any Olympics- and general football-related questions you’d like answered by Mehreen and Simon, contact us on Instagram, TikTok and X. Find us under the handle @HeroesAndHumans. Thank you for listening. Remember to recommend the podcast to your friends and family (or even your enemies) and make sure to leave a review! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tipped as one of the longshots and now England manager, Thomas Tuchel is the polarising German football coach known for his brilliance, fanaticism, and sometimes cruelty.  Simon and Mehreen cover the fascinating and complex world of Tuchel, whose career is defined by never-ending cycles of success and self-destruction. They chronicle his rollercoaster career—from early days in Germany under the shadow of Jürgen Klopp, to rises and falls at Paris St Germain, Chelsea, and Bayern Munich.  Discover how the enigmatic Tuchel’s unconventional training methods, tactical innovation towards coaching, and workaholic lifestyle lead him to become such a dividing and impressive figure of today’s football.  Time stamps: 00:30 - Introduction to Thomas Tuchel 01:03 - His unique lifestyle and beliefs 01:41 - The cycle: Success and self-destruction 02:04 - Potential candidacy for the England national team 03:21 - Early career and influences 05:33 - Playing career and transition to coaching 07:24 - Influence of Ralf Rangnick 09:09 - Innovative coaching methods and rise at Mainz ​​23:23 - Sabbatical and learning from other sports 30:14 - Terrorist attack on Dortmund's team bus 32.20 - Strained relationship with Dortmund's management 33:56 - Move to Paris Saint-Germain 34:50 - Approach to managing star players at Paris Saint Germain 36:24 - Champions League final and abrupt departure from Paris Saint Germain 38:42 - Arrival at Chelsea and immediate impact 43:26 - Winning the Champions League with Chelsea 50:26 - Personal challenges and departure from Chelsea 53:36 - Brief tenure at Bayern Munich 55:40 - Speculation on becoming England manager Join the Heroes and Humans Supporters Club! Are you a fan of Heroes and Humans and can’t wait for the next episode? Why not become part of our exclusive community and get even closer to the action? By joining our official H&H Supporters Club on Patreon, you’ll unlock access to behind-the-scenes sneak peeks, bonus content, and special Q&A sessions with your hosts, Mehreen and Simon. Whether you're looking for deeper insights into football’s biggest personalities or just can’t wait for the next episode, we’ve got something for you. Don’t miss out! Support us and get more from your favourite podcast. Join us today at patreon.com/heroesandhumans Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices