Alex Ferguson spent 26 seasons as the coach of Manchester United – winning more trophies and accolades than any other manager in the history of football (although Pep may well beat that soon…).  Part 1, the making of Alex Ferguson, tracked the Scotsman’s early life and career. This sequel episode concentrates on how Ferguson helped lead Manchester United to international fame and dominance – gaining respect and recognition from world leaders along the way. In this episode, Mehreen and Simon cover Ferguson’s career and coaching style through the 90s to his retirement in 2013. They touch on his style of coaching on players such as Eric Cantona, his influence over the Class of ‘92 – including Ryan Giggs and David Beckham – up to managing Cristiano Ronaldo. This episode focuses on Ferguson’s contradictory nature – from his authoritarian and domineering nature that would be a nightmare for any HR department, to the popular manager that attracted respect and admiration from people across all walks of life. This is the second episode of a two-part series. Make sure to listen to ‘The making of Alex Ferguson’ before this one. Time stamps: 00:32: Pick-up from last episode – stats, scouting, and play style 08:58: A father figure and matching coaching style to fit the player (Cantona and the class of ‘92) 14:19: Managing the ‘night and day’ personality of Ryan Giggs 21:04: Ruthlessness, egomania, and ways to instill fear in players 26:18: Money and empathy in the era of hyper-rich football 35:00: ‘Fergie time’ and putting the pressure on extra time 42:16: Signing Cristiano Ronaldo and scouting new talent 46:10: Nearing retirement age but not ready to give up 54:51: Last blaze of glory and retirement 59:31: Working with Manchester United after retirement 1:01:49: Brain haemorrhage and influencing from the sidelines 1:07:49: Legacy of a brutal, almost political, figure 1:16:47: Applying the Ferguson leadership style to other industries Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Alex Ferguson, the omnipotent, omnipresent orator, is widely regarded as one of the greatest football managers of all time. This episode tracks Ferguson’s early life and career, showcasing an intricate backstory marred by violence, conviviality, and a quest for greatness.  Mehreen and Simon chronicle Ferguson’s early life, from growing up in working-class Glasgow in the 1940s and part-time pub landlord to playing ‘international’ football, and a managerial career (and firing) in Scottish clubs in the 1970s. What attracted Manchester United to this angry Scotsman who took everything so seriously? How did Ferguson build his role as a ‘do-all’ manager that will say hello to the footballers and cleaners alike, and sit on the phone to fan club presidents for hours? This episode is part of a two-part series on Alex Ferguson, and is defined by comradeship, collectivism, and communication. Look out for the sequel, ‘The reign of Alex Ferguson’, which tracks Ferguson’s longtime success at Manchester United. Time stamps:  00:45: Introduction 06:47: Growing up working class in Glasgow  16:23: Violence as a lasting influence 26:17: Welcome to H&H’s new AI friend… 28:40: Career as an ‘international’ footballer and almost-emigration to Canada 34:12: A record £60,000 transfer and move to coaching 39:33: Figuring out his coaching style in Scottish clubs 46:58: Anger, alcoholics, and temperance 51:14: Religious divisions and sacking from St Mirren 56:45: Move to coaching Aberdeen  1:03:42: Assistant Manager of Scotland and the death of Jock Stein  1:07:06: On Manchester United’s radar 1:12:53: Early coaching at Manchester United 1:18:57: The angry lunatic vs. the people person at Manchester United 1:25:09: Everything starts to turn around…  Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

In 2010, the footballing community was shouting about corruption. FIFA had just awarded the 2018 World Cup to Russia and the 2022 World Cup to Qatar. Something didn’t sound quite right… In this groundbreaking episode, Simon and Mehreen cover not only the life and corruption of former FIFA President Sepp Blatter, but also paint a picture of the geopolitical changes in global football and the rising power shifts from the West to the East. The podcast features clips from an exclusive interview with Sepp Blatter himself, who candidly reveals details of his relationship with Russian President Vladimir Putin, meetings with Qatar and French President Nicholas Sarkozy, and FIFA officials’ roles in the Qatari corruption scandal. This is a story of power, money, and corruption—akin to a mafia movie or Hollywood biopic. You won’t want to miss it. Time stamps: 00:26: Introduction 03:54: Growing up in Switzerland 08:02: Coca Cola gets Blatter into FIFA 13:32: From bureaucrat to the biggest job at FIFA 19:57: Turning a blind eye or encouraging corruption? 24:58: Simon’s run-in with Blatter (and missing out on a spa day) 34:49: Qatari official meets the French President 37:59: Russia and Qatar win the World Cup bid 45:04: Chuck Blazer blows the whistle 49:37: A farcical election and questions of conviction 57:36: A lonely 80s of court cases, irrelevance, and attempt to stop the Ukraine War 01:00:22: What is Sepp Blatter’s legacy? Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Defensive midfielder N’Golo Kanté has left a huge legacy on football, yet hardly anything is known about him. How did this humble, fame-shy footballer become so beloved by barely saying a single world? In this episode, Simon and Mehreen cover the reclusive Kanté, from poor beginnings in the Paris banlieues to bringing underdog Leicester to shock victory in 2016. They cover his rise to worldwide recognition and uncomfortable relationship with fame as he sees further success at Chelsea and for the French national team. Together, they piece together an intricate picture of the human behind the hero of football. They cover stories of the well-meaning Kanté, who had never been to a birthday party until his 20s, drives a Mini Cooper, doesn’t want to be paid via offshore tax havens, and struggles with the concept of hiring a cleaner. But of course, there’s a more unfortunate side to being the most genuine person in league football – a side that leads to Kanté being held at gunpoint thanks to advantageous agents, and business decisions that seem slightly out of character. This is the story of how the zippy ‘vacuum cleaner’ who hoovers up the midfield became one of the universally-liked men in football.  Time stamps: 00:40: Introduction to N’Golo Kanté (NG) 03:59: Growing up in Paris  07:20: Beginnings in third division French football 10:01: Maturing on and off the pitch at Caen 15:00: Arrival and success at Leicester 20:35: Move to Chelsea and the big leagues 29:00: France win the World Cup 34:35: A ‘vacuum cleaner’ on the pitch and discomfort at recognition 40:13: Surprise comeback at Al-Ittihad 45:15: What if Kanté hadn’t been a footballer? For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"? Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game. https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/l7y2et League Code: l7y2et Looking forward to playing against you this season! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Charismatic and polarising football coach José Mourinho always has one single goal for his teams: to win, no matter what. It’s this mentality that led him to awards, accolades, and admiration. So what happens when the winner stops winning?  This second and final episode on José Mourinho chronicles his fall from grace in the 2010s. Simon and Mehreen cover his arrival at Real Madrid in 2010 to joining Turkish football club Fenerbahçe in 2024—and how Mourinho turns toxic when he’s no longer at his peak winning streak.  Simon and Mehreen cover this new, more uncomfortable era for Mourinho—a time when aggressive coaching styles dominate, and awareness of men’s mental health becomes more mainstream. How does Mourinho adapt (or not adapt) during his tenures at Chelsea, Manchester United, and Tottenham Hotspur?  And is it really over for the notorious media star, love bomber, and genius strategist, or are we now entering Mourinho’s post-Roma redemption era? Listen to find out.  This is a two-parter; listen to our first episode on the rise of José Mourinho before this one. Time stamps: 00:36: Welcome back 04:37: Arrival at Real Madrid 09:30: Spurring on the Real Madrid-Barça rivalry  14:45: An emotional loss (ft. two emotional Portuguese men) 18:11: The end of the Real Madrid ‘revenge tour’ 19:24: Return to Chelsea and love bombing 27:43: Downfall at Chelsea, and the Justin Bieber incident 33:50: Mourinho struggles at Manchester United 40:33: Mourinho’s Manchester United gets left behind 44:35: An ill-fated tenure at Tottenham Hotspur 48:10: A hero’s welcome at Roma (and the start of redemption?) 50:04: Chasing dopamine at Fenerbahçe and Turkish football 53:40: Mourinho’s future and legacy  For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"? Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game. https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/l7y2et League Code: l7y2et Looking forward to playing against you this season! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Jose Mourinho is the arrogant and charismatic cult figure who divides opinions on the pitch and in the press room. Is he the genius strategist and saviour of failing clubs or just a toxic coach with main character syndrome?  This episode covers the rise of Mourinho, from his early beginnings in Portugal and Barcelona, to his time coaching Chelsea and Inter Milan. Simon and Mehreen analyse Mourinho’s rise to football supremacy with stories that even mega-fans (and mega-haters) may not have heard before. In the episode, Simon and Mehreen share their tongue-in-cheek, in-depth analysis of Mourinho—as a love bomber and a ‘f***boy’, Mourinho’s problematic takes, and how he has been able to use his intelligence, charisma, and good looks for both good and toxic purposes.  This is a two-parter; look out for the next episode on the fall of Jose Mourinho.  Time stamps: 00:30: Rise, fall, and redemption (?) 4:00: Growing up in a rapidly-changing Portugal 9:40: Rise of the intellectual and start at Barcelona 16:56: Frustration to first big break 21:01: Spotting weaknesses in his opponents 25:35: Mourinho - the handsome, the charismatic 28:53: Becoming the main character – Porto success to Abramovich knocking 35:34: Chelsea beginnings and rise of the media manipulator 43:25: Mourinho “the psychic” 44:43: Problematic takes on African players 47:12: Mourinho the love bomber 50:38: Chelsea becomes toxic 57:51: Chelsea sacking and next big move 1:03:04: Saviour of Inter Milan 1:08:26: Heading for Madrid For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"? Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game. https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/l7y2et League Code: l7y2et Looking forward to playing against you this season! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Sven-Göran Eriksson, former England and Lazio manager, has died at the age of 76. In this tribute episode, Mehreen and Simon discuss the colourful life and career of the small-town Swede who shook up English football as the country's first foreign national team coach and electrified the British tabloids at the height of media intrusion into the private lives of celebrities.  Mehreen and Simon are joined by Olof Lundh, Swedish sports journalist, on how Sven's career went from managing part-time players with Gothenburg in the '80 and ended in ignominy after an elaborate fraud involving the ghost owners of Notts County and a trip to North Korea. He was a perennial nearly-ran with England's "golden generation" of footballers, was duped by a "fake sheikh", and led a financially-doped Lazio in their greatest years, winning seven trophies in three years.   This is the story of Sweden's greatest ever coach and a remarkable footballing life. RIP Sven.  Timestamps: 00:20 Introduction 07:44: Humble beginnings and discovering football 13:25: Breakthrough with Gothenburg 15:51: Moves around Europe 17:50: The first foreign England manager 25:20: A calm demeanour in the hysterical noughties media 31:37: An English culture clash 34:08: Love affairs and the News International phone hacking scandal  38:19: Flirting with other jobs and the ‘fake sheikh’ 45:31: Simon’s take on interviewing Sven 49:35: Penalties misery and protection of players 52:58: The end of England 55:16: The Scam move to Notts County 57:43: Naivete and a move away from European football 1:02:05: Sven reveals he has cancer Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Norwegian striker Erling Haaland is making football history with 63 league goals in two seasons. Tipped as a future Ballon d'Or winner, the 6ft4 speed machine seems to attract both rampant adoration and mockery. In this episode, Simon and Mehreen chronicle Haaland’s short life and rise to glory - from growing up extraordinary in a culture that prioritises equality, and the influence of his sporting family. They chronicle his choices to go for growth over short-term glory, and his move to and impact at Manchester City. During the episode, Simon and Mehreen discuss the paradoxes of Haaland’s personality - as both typical and ‘anti-Norwegian’, the awkward persona that makes him constantly go viral on social media, and his holy pursuit for longevity à la Cristiano Ronaldo - in contrast to more ‘stereotypical’ footballers such as Jack Grealish. Time stamps: 00:32: Introduction to Erling Haaland  05:37: Early years in England with a footballer father 09:46: Growing up special in an equal society 14:17: The awkward teen years and rise of the ‘anti-Norwegian’ 19:38: The influence of super-agent Mino Raiola and move to Salzburg 25:10: Rise to stardom at Dortmund 30:05: Becoming a viral social media sensation 34:37: Haaland’s Ronaldo-inspired quest for longevity 40:30: Manchester City and the precarious position of being Number 9 45:93: What would Haaland do without football? For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"? Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game. https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/l7y2et League Code: l7y2et Looking forward to playing against you this season! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Ten Hag’s slow rise to coaching success seems to have come to an abrupt stop at Manchester United. Can the man who led other teams to glory turn the club around on his third attempt? Or is his tenure simply doomed? In this episode, Mehreen and Simon chronicle the rise and fall of Erik ten Hag. They cover the hyper-organised, football-obsessed Dutchman’s rise from middling footballer to his slow and successful rise to Head Coach of Ajax.  On the way they investigate the influence of Pep Guardiola on his coaching style and his entrepreneurial obsession with becoming a Ferguson-style football ‘CEO’. Timestamps: 00.35 - Introduction  05:50 - Childhood coaching-mindset to middling football player 11:47 - The dreamer assistant coach that thinks like a football CEO 13:54 - Assistant at Twente under Steve McClaren  16:34 - Successful stint as Head Coach with the Go-Ahead Eagles  20:37 - The influence of Pep Guardiola at Bayern Munich  24:31 - Back to the Netherlands and rise in Utrecht  27:45 - Move to Ajax - from mockery to success 32:33 - The iconic Spurs v Ajax Game, 2019 37:54 - Setting up at Man U and taking control of transfers 49:27 - Man U’s first season: Rocky beginnings or stable start? 56:54 - Staying resilient among increasing uncertainty 1:01 - The winning formula to being a good coach For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"? Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game. https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/l7y2et League Code: l7y2et Looking forward to playing against you this season! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

In this special Q&A episode, hosts Mehreen Khan and Simon Kuper answer questions from listeners around the globe. From the Olympics to the intricacies of modern football management, Mehreen and Simon tackle a wide range of topics, providing insights and sharing personal anecdotes. Join us as we explore the world of football through the lens of your questions. Timestamps: 01:25 - Discussion on the Olympics and its significance in football 06:20 - Emma Hayes' mixed Olympics with the US Women's Team 10:08 - The debate on a UK football team in the Olympics 15:02 - Chelsea's business model and financial strategies 18:12 - The controversial transfer market practices and financial fair play 21:00 - The future of Chelsea under new management 23:30 - The eternal debate: Who is the GOAT of football? 26:40 - Comparing players from different eras and the evolution of the GOAT debate 30:00 - Quickfire round: Hero or Villain? 33:08 - Reflecting on Gareth Southgate's tenure with England 36:58 - The role of modern football managers and their influence 39:35 - Speculation on Erik ten Hag's future at Manchester United 45:55 - The impact of American ownership on Premier League clubs 48:02 - Fantasy Premier League tips and Mehreen's starter squad 50:10 - The concept of "Brat" in football and notable examples 52:31 - The common traits among great footballers 54:49 - How Mehreen and Simon met and started the podcast 57:28 - Teaser for the upcoming Jose Mourinho special episode For the 2024/25 Fantasy Premier League, why don't you join my mini-league "Heroes & Humans Of Football"? Joining the league couldn't be easier. Simply use the link below and you'll be added automatically after you've entered the game. https://fantasy.premierleague.com/leagues/auto-join/l7y2et League Code: l7y2et Looking forward to playing against you this season! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Over the past 20 weeks, Mehreen and Simon have covered the stories of the so-called ‘heroes’ of football, as well as the game’s undercover (and not so undercover) ‘villains’. As the duo take a week off to end their debut season, they reflect on their favourite episodes so far, muse on what they’ve learned, and provide behind-the-scenes insights into the podcast.   Heroes and Humans will return on Thursday 8th August for an Olympics special. If you have any Olympics- and general football-related questions you’d like answered by Mehreen and Simon, contact us on Instagram, TikTok and X. Find us under the handle @HeroesAndHumans. Thank you for listening. Remember to recommend the podcast to your friends and family (or even your enemies) and make sure to leave a review! Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Tipped as one of the longshots for England manager, Thomas Tuchel is the polarising German football coach known for his brilliance, fanaticism, and sometimes cruelty.  Simon and Mehreen cover the fascinating and complex world of Tuchel, whose career is defined by never-ending cycles of success and self-destruction. They chronicle his rollercoaster career – from early days in Germany under the shadow of Jürgen Klopp, to rises and falls at Paris St Germain, Chelsea, and Bayern Munich.  Discover how the enigmatic Tuchel’s unconventional training methods, tactical innovation towards coaching, and workaholic lifestyle lead him to become such a dividing and impressive figure of today’s football.  Time stamps: 00:30 - Introduction to Thomas Tuchel 01:03 - His unique lifestyle and beliefs 01:41 - The cycle: Success and self-destruction 02:04 - Potential candidacy for the England national team 03:21 - Early career and influences 05:33 - Playing career and transition to coaching 07:24 - Influence of Ralf Rangnick 09:09 - Innovative coaching methods and rise at Mainz ​​23:23 - Sabbatical and learning from other sports 30:14 - Terrorist attack on Dortmund's team bus 32.20 - Strained relationship with Dortmund's management 33:56 - Move to Paris Saint-Germain 34:50 - Approach to managing star players at Paris Saint Germain 36:24 - Champions League final and abrupt departure from Paris Saint Germain 38:42 - Arrival at Chelsea and immediate impact 43:26 - Winning the Champions League with Chelsea 50:26 - Personal challenges and departure from Chelsea 53:36 - Brief tenure at Bayern Munich 55:40 - Speculation on becoming England manager Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Emma Hayes, one of the most influential figures in women's football, is embarking on a new chapter in her illustrious career. After 12 transformative years as the manager of Chelsea Women, Hayes is set to take on the role of head coach for the United States Women's National Team (USWNT). This episode explores Hayes' remarkable journey, her impact on the sport, and the legacy she leaves behind at Chelsea. Timestamps: 00:00 - Introduction to Emma Hayes and her career transition 02:30 - Hayes' early life and journey into football management 05:15 - Building Chelsea Women from the ground up 09:45 - Hayes' coaching philosophy and leadership style 14:30 - Pioneering approaches to women's health in football 18:20 - Major achievements and trophies at Chelsea 22:10 - Personal challenges and growth as a leader 26:35 - Hayes' impact on the professionalisation of women's football 30:50 - The move to USWNT and future aspirations 34:15 - Legacy at Chelsea and in women's football Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

In this special episode before the Euro 2024 final between Spain and England, Mehreen Khan and Simon Kuper answer your questions about the heroes and humans featured in the tournament. They discuss the performances of key players, why France and England have been so boring, and the perennial issues of politics, race and multiculturalism that have been a constant over the last month. Will Gareth Southgate’s controversial tenure be extended ? And why has Jude Bellingham evolved from golden boy to internet meme? How did the Netherlands go from Johan Cruyff to Wout Weghorst? And Simon refuses to self-sabotage by predicting who will win Sunday's final, but they do argue about Spain and England. Don't forget to get in touch to add your thoughts on the heroes and humans of Euro 2024 via social media @heroesandhumans.  Timestamps: 00:22 Special episode ahead of Euro 2024 final between Spain and England 00:45 Simon's experiences in Germany and reflections on the Dutch team 03:18 Talking about the final, Spain, and England 05:29 Question about Didier Deschamps staying on as French national team manager 06:24 Discussion about Gareth Southgate's future with England 13:39 Comparison of Spain and England's team compositions for the final 16:15 Political activism in football: French players' stance against the far-right 21:21 Analysis of Jude Bellingham's public perception and "villain arc" 28:28 Analysis of Euro 2024 compared to past tournaments 34:13 Question about the impact of urban planning on footballing styles 38:28 Discussion on playing styles in Euro 2024 including the Dutch shift to long-ball tactics 41:21 Predictions and analysis for the Spain vs England final 44:25 Final question about explaining Johan Cruyff to children at Taylor Swift concerts Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

In this special pre-Euro 2024 final episode, Mehreen and Simon delve into the stories of Lamine Yamal and Nico Williams, the two young stars who have lit up the tournament and represent a new, diverse Spain. They discuss the remarkable journeys of these players, their backgrounds, and the societal and cultural implications of their success. From Yamal's record-breaking goal to Williams' impactful presence on the field, this episode is about football and so much more. Timestamps: 00:00:29 - Introduction to Lamine Yamal and Nico Williams 00:02:23 - Background on Lamine Yamal's early life and football journey 00:12:00 - Nico Williams' incredible family story and his rise in football 00:20:02 - Discussion on the significance of Yamal and Williams in modern Spain 00:26:35 - Analysis of their playing styles and contributions to the Spanish team 00:31:58 - Historical context and comparisons with past Spanish teams 00:35:03 - Issues of race and identity in Spanish football and society 00:45:07 - The future prospects of Yamal and Williams 00:50:29 - Closing thoughts and reflections on Spain's new era in football Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Fifty years ago this week, Johan Cruyff took one of the most exciting teams in football history to the 1974 World Cup final. But his Holland lost to West Germany, largely because of what has gone down in Dutch history as “The Swimming Pool Affair” – a German tabloid’s front-page scoop that cost Cruyff great anguish and many hours in a phone booth calling his furious wife. We tell the story of Dutch “total football”, of the rock-star team that lived it large both on the field and off it, of the manager who was simultaneously coaching FC Barcelona, and of Johan Cruyff himself: the man who invented modern football, and fought with everybody, including with his biggest fan, Simon.  Timestamps: 00:00:29 - Introduction to the story of the 1974 Dutch national team and Johan Cruyff 00:02:23 - Explanation of the Dutch team's revolutionary playing style 00:03:19 - Background on the development of "total football" in Amsterdam 00:08:18 - Discussion of Cruyff's upbringing and early career with Ajax 00:10:05 - Cruyff's childhood and the impact of his father's death 00:11:30 - Introduction of Rinus Michels as Ajax manager 00:14:01 - Development of Ajax's new playing style under Michels and Cruyff 00:15:29 - Description of the dynamic between Cruyff and Michels 00:19:07 - Lead-up to the 1974 World Cup and the Dutch team's preparations 00:24:36 - Context of the 1974 World Cup in West Germany 00:27:02 - Description of the Dutch team's behaviour during the World Cup 00:28:17 - Cruyff's unconventional decisions in team selection 00:30:31 - Discussion of the Dutch team's appearance and iconic orange jerseys 00:33:03 - Description of the Dutch team's revolutionary playing style in action 00:36:07 - The "swimming pool affair" and its impact on Cruyff before the final 00:43:03 - The World Cup final against West Germany 00:45:55 - Aftermath of the final and Dutch reaction to finishing second 00:47:20 - Legacy of the 1974 Dutch team and Cruyff's impact on football 00:49:28 - Simon's experience interviewing Cruyff years later and subsequent fallout Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

The Afghan women’s national team doesn’t exist – not according to FIFA, anyway. The Taliban banned women's football when they took control of Afghanistan in 2021, forcing the team to flee the country for fear of their lives. But FIFA now refuses to recognise the team in exile, allowing the Taliban to continue their gender apartheid. Today, the team is fighting for FIFA recognition and their place in football. Living in exile and risking their lives to play football, the Afghan women's players are determined to return to the international game. Mehreen and Simon talk to Khalida Popal, the woman who defied the country's misogynistic norms to set up the national team. She became the first female captain, coach, and executive in Afghanistan's history. This is a story of a team’s courage and comradery in the face of death threats and sexual assaults. To support the Afghan women's team in their fight for recognition, you can sign this petition and follow Khalida Popal on LinkedIn:  https://www.change.org/p/fifacom-standwithafghanwomen-recognise-afghanistan-women-s-national-football-team-in-exile-follow-alivekicking23 https://www.linkedin.com/in/khalida-popal-64a29176?originalSubdomain=dk Timestamps: 00:00:02 - Introduction to the episode about Afghanistan's women's football team 00:03:47 - Khalida Popal joins to discuss founding the team 00:03:55 - Growing up in Afghanistan before the Taliban 00:05:09 - Early exposure to football in Afghanistan  00:06:09 - Returning to Afghanistan after 2001 and facing resistance to women playing football 00:08:56 - Setting up a girls' football team at school despite challenges 00:12:51 - Men discover and threaten the girls playing football 00:14:57 - Story of a teammate forced to stop playing by her family 00:18:06 - Establishing the Afghan women's national team 00:21:07 - Negotiating with the Afghan Football Federation for recognition 00:25:16 - Difficulties of managing the national team and facing abuse 00:30:10 - Fleeing Afghanistan due to death threats 00:33:56 - Evacuating players as Taliban returned to power in 2021 00:41:29 - Current players describe obstacles they faced playing in Afghanistan 00:43:01 - Players' experiences when Taliban took over in 2021 00:45:04 - Campaign for FIFA to recognise the exiled Afghan women's team 00:48:03 - FIFA's lack of response to requests for recognition Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

It's bizarre how long it took Argentinians to learn to love Leo Messi. His exile from his declining homeland always made him suspect. The comparison with Maradona hung over him from the start. And why was he hardly ever as good for Argentina as he was for Barcelona? We tell the story of the world's best player's complex relationship with his own country, and how it finally had a happy end. Timestamps: 00:00:02 - Introduction 00:01:18 - Messi's fraught relationship with Argentina 00:06:24 - Messi as the embodiment of the Pibe archetype 00:11:36 - Messi's early international career and struggles with Argentina 00:18:52 - 2014 World Cup and Argentina's attempt at a "Messi strategy" 00:24:06 - 2014 World Cup disappointment and Messi's frustrations 00:29:19 - Psychoanalysis of Messi's perceived lack of Argentinian-ness 00:36:58 - Messi finally wins Copa America in 2021 00:39:35 - 2022 World Cup in Qatar and initial struggles 00:40:24 - Argentina's resurgence and Messi's leadership 00:42:15 - Winning the 2022 World Cup as a team 00:44:26 - Messi's place in Argentinian history compared to Maradona 00:46:10 - Speculation on Messi's life without football 00:48:02 - Would the hosts want to hang out with Messi? Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

Gareth Southgate's tactical and managerial qualities still split fan opinion as he leads England in his fourth major tournament at the Euros in Germany this summer. But one thing that can't be disputed is Southgate's ability to unite his players in a team whose confidence has been battered by two decades of under-achievment. The former Aston Villa captain has been a leading voice against racism directed at young black English players and is arguably redefining the notion of Englishness in modern Britain.  Simon and Mehreen discuss the steps and experiences that how Southgate came to manage another golden generation of English footballers, growing up in a respectable family in South London, learning from the negatives, and bouncing back from *that* penalty miss in Euro '96. But will Gareth Southgate go down in history as a unifying England manager or just another nearly-ran?  Timecodes: 00:00:43 - Proposition: Gareth Southgate is a very laudable, commendable figure, but is he a national hero or overhyped mediocrity? 00:02:22 - Southgate's background and upbringing in Crawley 00:05:52 - Joining Crystal Palace as an apprentice and experiencing class division 00:08:31 - Southgate's playing career at Palace, Villa, and Middlesbrough 00:12:04 - First meeting with Southgate and the Euro 1996 penalty miss 00:19:25 - John Major's encouragement after the penalty miss 00:22:22 - Southgate's unfulfilled club career and disappointment 00:27:56 - Becoming England manager in 2016 after a national humiliation 00:33:06 - Resetting expectations and creating a high-performance culture 00:39:20 - 2018 World Cup and learning to love the new England team 00:43:16 - Black Lives Matter movement and Southgate's stance 00:50:00 - Euro 2020 final against Italy and the penalty misses 00:54:10 - Expectations for the 2022 World Cup and Southgate's limitations 01:00:22 - Southgate's vision of an inclusive and modern Englishness 01:04:34 - Conclusion and Southgate's potential legacy Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com

On the eve of Euro 2024, Henry talks about nearly 30 years of dealing with England managers and players, from Glenn Hoddle to Harry Kane - with some very kind words for Jack Grealish. Henry Winter is one of the best known and most respected journalists in the English language. Having covered football for over 38 years, conducted over 1500 interviews, and attended thousands of matches, Henry might have a story or two to share. In this episode, we talk to Henry about football journalism, how it's changed over the decades, and the rise of modern media, as well as how he navigates the complicated relationships that journalists have with players and managers. Timestamps: 00:13:06 Discussion about how football clubs and players are doing more community work than the government, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic. 00:16:22 Reflection on the changing relationship between football players and the press, from adversarial in the past to more cooperative now. 00:17:14 Discussion on the growth of fan-related content and how it reflects fans' frustration with mainstream media. 00:21:28 Admission of making a mistake by making fun of Ronaldo's weight on Twitter, learning a lesson about not personalising criticism. 00:22:39 Reflection on the moral substance of many football players, particularly in contrast to politicians. 00:27:14 Discussion about the most interesting people to meet in football, including Sir Alex Ferguson, Pele, and Jurgen Klopp. 00:29:57 Talk about who is best at discussing football itself, mentioning Glenn Hoddle and other players who didn't have much pace but became good managers. 00:30:56 Question about who one would be happy never to see again, with a reluctant mention of FIFA president Gianni Infantino. 00:31:33 Suggestion: Jurgen Klopp is one of the most misunderstood people in football, with more science behind his emotional style than people realise. 00:33:34 Discussion about England's chances in Euro 2024, praising players like Jude Bellingham, Phil Foden, and Declan Rice. 00:34:48 Talk about how social media affects players' mental health, with many going off social media due to abuse and intensity. 00:36:52 Pondering what one would be doing if not a football writer, suggesting possibly stacking shelves at Selfridges. Follow @heroesandhumans everywhere. Instagram TikTok Facebook X Visit our website for news & updates heroesandhumans.com