This week we have gravel racer, Ian Lopez de San Roman in the studio to talk about his upcoming season. At 19 years old, Ian will be the youngest competitor in the Life Time Grand Prix. With early season results in the Grasshopper series and Rockcobbler, Ian is certainly an athlete to watch.
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[00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport
I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist.
This week on the show. I want to introduce you to ian Lopez de Santa Ramon. A 19 year old from Sonoma county here in Northern California, who got accepted to participate as a professional athlete in the lifetime grand Prix series in 2023. As you'll see this young athlete found his way to the bike.
Not super early and didn't see remarkable results as a junior in his own words. But yet over the last few years, he's really found his stride cutting his teeth, both on the grasshopper series. Here in Northern California, as well as impressing Michael Marks when participating in the Belgian waffle ride series.
As we enter the 2023 grand Prix. I thought we'd take a chance and get to know Ian.
I managed to catch the Inn on his way, home from a bike fit and Monterey. And so how did over in the studio for quick conversation?
Before we jump in, I need to thank this week. Sponsor logos components. You may recall my episode with my co-host Randall Jacobs around the launch of logos components and the three new sets of carbon wheels that they're bringing to market. At the end of 2020. They're 29 or wheelset received .
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If you're considering getting a new carbon wheelset this year, I encourage you to go check out logos components.com. I'll put that link in the show notes. Logos offers three different wheel sizes, 700 C six 50 B and 20 Niner. I personally am rocking the six 50 bees out of my garage. It's got an internal width of 28 millimeters. So you get that nice kind of C shape. When you're running larger volume tires.
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With that said let's dive right into my conversation with Ian.
[00:02:48] Craig Dalton: Ian, welcome to the studio.
[00:02:50] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Thanks for making it happen. It was a little last minute.
[00:02:53] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Studio is a euphemism for the shed office in my backyard, but I appreciate you coming over and it was actually pretty cool to see your bikes getting out of the car.
[00:03:03] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Yeah. You got a, you got a sweet set up here.
[00:03:05] Craig Dalton: It was a shed that held the bikes and then we hired a contractor to drywall and put it all together. So it's kind of a covid investment, so I could have an
[00:03:12] Ian Lopez de San Roman: office at home. Nice. It looks, it looks legit. It looks well made,
[00:03:16] Craig Dalton: and I got my bikes on the wall, so That's all right.
[00:03:19] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Something to look at.
[00:03:19] Craig Dalton: So, you're actually just coming off competing at low gap, right? In one of the grasshoppers. Yep. How'd that go yesterday?
[00:03:27] Ian Lopez de San Roman: I made a lot of mistakes.
Yeah, let's talk about it a little bit.
Yeah. So I went into the race and I was like, , I kind of really wanna win this race. It's kind of like my home race and I know Pete's on good form and everybody there is like really fast. So I just decided like I, I'm not usually not nervous for races, but I was actually nervous for low gap, which is weird.
So I slept kind of weird. Started the race, , it was like super hot on the first climb. And then I, I was thinking about what I did the night before the race. Mid race for some reason. And then I was like, dude, I didn't charge my shifting. And then I look back and I see the blinking red light on the axis and I'm like, dude, really?
You forgot to charge your shifting. And so I think it was like halfway through the race I roll up to the aid station. So the shifting died on this like cement climb and then I roll into the aid station, I'm yelling, Blake, give me an access battery. Blake, which is like my friend. . Everyone from the shop I used to work for was there, and I was like, dude, I'm gonna get so roasted about this later.
I'm gonna, yeah, people are gonna have, this is gonna be the story people are telling. And so they didn't have an access battery. Usually they have a pile of 'em and they just sell 'em out and give 'em to I see my old Nica coach, Mike, Mike Warren is there and he's I was like, Mike, Mike, I see you're here.
Gimme your access battery. And he's no, man, no man. I have to ride outta here. Come on. Come on. And then I was like, I'm racing gimme your access battery. He's no, no, no, no, no. And so I got in, like I spent like a minute and a half like arguing him and finally I get his battery. And so I go in and he's dude, you're really stranded me out here.
You owe me. And he is he was like really mad. And so I took his battery and then I'm still kind of working out a couple kinks on the new bike. And so I dropped my chain, lost some more time, but then, I think my fitness is pretty good right now. So then I caught up to Lance who is in. , which I guess was like fourth place.
And then we caught up the Tyler, which was third place, and then we see Chris Blevins right down the road. And then I was all like, I was like, yeah, okay, maybe I'll sudden a little flyer at the end and try to get these two Legion Crisp printers. But I didn't really think I had a very good chance.
And then half a mile from the finish, I flatted. , and I was like, like my rear tire was kind of bouncy and I could feel the rim. And I was like, really? This is so stupid. So then Tyler went, he did 1500 watts and he got third. And then I took Lance to the line. Like I, I made him fight for it, but I, I got fifth.
So, not a bad
[00:05:44] Craig Dalton: result. You would've thought with all that negotiating to try to get an access battery, you wouldn't even be part.
[00:05:50] Ian Lopez de San Roman: The event. It wasn't a very, I didn't have very good luck that day. Like right after the race, me and like Stan and a couple other people went and rode around and then like we rode up the old low gap finish and then like my friend Taj was like next to me and then he like got too close and hit my rear brake going or my front brake going like 20 and then I crashed and flooded my other tire on the front.
And then, It was always like lying on the ground with another flat tire, like after the race. And I was like, what am I doing? So then like a log a truck with some logs came by and then we put my bike in the back and I held onto the back like a garbage man and rode five miles down the road on the back of this truck.
And then I was like, I was just like so bummed, but whatever. Not a, not a
[00:06:32] Craig Dalton: terrible result. And best to get that bad
[00:06:34] Ian Lopez de San Roman: luck out of the way. This part of the season. Yeah. Something to improve on. And so we'll go from there and see.
[00:06:38] Craig Dalton: Let's start at, let's take a step back and just understand one, you're from Sonoma County in California, right?
Yeah. And two, you've, you were the youngest person to get accepted in the Lifetime Grand PR pre for 2023.
[00:06:54] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Yeah. Yeah. Super excited on that. And your age is? I'm 19.
[00:06:59] Craig Dalton: Okay. So at 19, how did you find the bike? Like when did you find the bike originally, and what was your progression like? How does a 19 year old find the.
with the capability and skill to race at a professional level on the gravel scene?
[00:07:11] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Yeah. Honestly, I don't really know how I'm, how I'm here, , I started like actually kind of riding when I was like third or fourth grade. Like me and my mom would kind.
Be like, yeah, yeah, we should, we used, started mountain biking. So my aunt is a pro. She went to the Olympics like twice I think. And so we always kind of, me and my sister kind of looked at it like, man, that's, that's kind of cool. And then we just we just had some like really crappy, like old bikes. And so we started kind of riding a little bit, and then there's like a local Wednesday night race called dirt C crits.
And then we I had ridden like maybe like a total of like couple days like cumulatively like a one. Not like one week, but you know what I'm saying, like seven total days over a couple months. And I was like, my friend invited me to this local race. I went and I was like, man, that was pretty fun.
And then like my sister came and showed up and watched and she's nah, never. I'm never riding a bike like that. I'm never riding a bike. And then like I kind of just kept riding from there. And now my sister's racing, cycling cross in Belgium. And I'm here in the Grand Prix . I don't know I honestly don't know, like in, I feel like we're missing a few
[00:08:17] Craig Dalton: pieces there.
So then you, you sort of, you discover it through the local dirt Cris series
[00:08:22] Ian Lopez de San Roman: at Local Dirt Cris. And then I kind of slowly, I raised that whole series and it was just like every Wednesday night you go and it's just like juniors beat down. Like it's just like a fight with ev all the juniors. It was so fun.
the bike pedler, like they didn't put like the winner got $150 gift card. It was like super cool. They, they cm c h at the time, right? Yeah. And they'd take these old like motorbike trophies and it was awesome. And so, yeah, I kind of just kept going through and then my sister and I got a coach.
Did you get, did you get involved in the Nica scene? Yeah. So we got involved in the Nika scene when I was in like fifth or sixth. I want to say like I started riding with him and then like pretty quickly, like I was always kind of riding with the varsity group and so if you've been riding with a varsity group since you were in like fifth or sixth grade, once you're actually in the Nike varsity, it's a little bit weird.
, but it must have been nice to
[00:09:15] Craig Dalton: have those older student athletes just kind of teaching you the ropes a little bit and showing you like, Yeah, you're capable of riding a 35 mile mountain bike
[00:09:24] Ian Lopez de San Roman: ride or whatever it was at the time.
Yeah. Back in the day, we barely rode it all. 15 miles was like such a big day. , it was good. We didn't have, we had a pretty strong scene, but it was like the people who were like a year or two older than me that were good, the people that were like, Older that we were actually in were, were like, I feel like the level was a little different then.
But yeah, it was super solid. We got the kind of ride like every Saturday. But from there I don't know, we just kind of rode a lot. And then as you were, as you were in
[00:09:53] Craig Dalton: high school, competing in
[00:09:55] Ian Lopez de San Roman: like a mountain bike races? Yeah. Actually now I remember. So the point where it actually got serious was like, I think it was like 2016.
, we like worked, did like a couple cycle cross races, and then we met this kid Paul, and then his dad like coached people and then like his brother Gavin had been to like Europe as a pro and then was kind of on the way out. And so then he just kinda took us under his wing and was like, , I'm gonna coach you guys.
And he was a super cool dude. He was like, well, I'm, he was like super religious and he was like, well, I don't charge you guys anything. We're coasting coaching. So I can say a prayer before the races. And he'd get you together. And he'd be like, God, what He was, he was an awesome guy, awesome guy.
Love that guy. He got us pretty serious. He gave us psycho cross drills and then we just like kind of kept going from there.. It was weird. Like I wasn't a very good junior.
Like I always followed exactly like exactly what the coach gave me, but , it like was not working. And so, it's really weird to say, but junior racing is a lot of who develops first? . And so I was like super late and so I was going to these Nire races and I was just getting likes like o obliterated.
Yeah. In every single race. And I was like, I was getting like super done with it and I was like, I'm falling all this coaching, like nothing's working. And then, , it was covid, COVID year is when I think it, like when I really got serious, it was like three years ago. And then I, I think I like, back then I thought I had three months.
of writing, and I was like, dude, I'm gonna be done in three months. And I never really thought like I actually had a future as a pro. Like I just thought, I wasn't you're not built for it. Yeah. And so, I was like, all right, like I had a really bad relationship with my previous coach. I don't really want to like, like talk trash or anything, but then I just like switched coaches and then I was like, it.
A couple months later, I was like, whoa. I'm like actually getting like faster, like really quick. And then it's just been like a, like an up from there. And , it honestly might be a good thing because like it kind of kept me hungry and I had no success. Obviously sucks to lose races, but if you're, if you're out there every single weekend just getting your face kicked in, like I feel like at some.
You're gonna, you're gonna win. And hopefully that's this year. Yeah. I think, I
[00:12:14] Craig Dalton: mean, that's part of the process, right? Yeah. We all start out as this lowest person on the ride. And you, you know, you get to the top of a climb and you're the last person there and everybody's ready to leave. And you keep doing that, you keep plugging away and next thing you know, you're not the last person to arrive at the top of the climb.
And I think that's, you know, the nature of developing as a cyclist. It's interesting in your case, like developing as a young cyclist and having to have that patience. , you know, ultimately discovering Hey, I actually am talented even though I've been getting my teeth kicked in for a few years.
[00:12:45] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Yeah, yeah.
And yeah, junior cycling is interesting. Like it's, it's funny how like a result as a as a good junior can like really land you on a team, but it's also like those kids like long term, might not be in the sport. And so, I've once I kind of figured out like you actually could do.
I kind of had the mentality like maybe I'm not the most like naturally talented, but I'll be there, I'll be there to take these kids sponsors once they burn out, or, it was kind of my joke. I don't wanna say it like that, but I'll be, I'll be there like to put in all the work and then it's all the work you don't see.
And I feel like a lot of people were kind of like, well, where did this Ian kid come out of? And it's I, the past three years, it's like I, I. Missed a day of training without being like, oh, I'm sick, or whatever. Right. So so a certain point, process point
[00:13:30] Craig Dalton: sounds like in the last three years is really when you picked up road cycling and
[00:13:34] Ian Lopez de San Roman: gravel cycling.
. I would say like more two years for the road. I I'm super green on the road. I think it like it helps that I like, I'm naturally like fit, like I have experience in the pack on gravel, like a little bit, but I've just kind of. I just I went to a couple South American like road tours and just threw myself in the deep end.
Let's get some handling skills and let's, let's go ride. And that that's super fun and I really had nothing to lose and like people down there really had all to lose, right? Because like I was just some like random American kid no one had heard of and then I was just down there having a good time.
[00:14:08] Craig Dalton: And so as you thought about like where you wanted to go with your cycling, there's obvious. going on the road and there's sort of a process for ultimately getting into the world tour, and that may start with development teams. It may start with kind of going and finding your own opportunities in Europe.
How were you thinking about what was gonna be next for you as, as we came to 2023?
[00:14:32] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Yeah, I mean like are you asking about what my decision, my decision.
[00:14:38] Craig Dalton: Yeah. It sounds you know, in getting to know you a little bit, you did have an opportunity to kind of stake your claim and say, I'm, I'm going to kind of go down the road path full, full force Yeah.
Where there's this other opportunity to go gravel and potentially there's another one where it's kind of a little bit of
[00:14:53] Ian Lopez de San Roman: both. Yeah, yeah. What do you, what are you thinking? It's hard. Like I, there's not really a, like a, a manual for how to do this, and I'm like super on the untraditional side of this.
there's like the regular use act development path where you kind of hop around the teams and then you go race with the national team and like I've never raced for the national team. I, yeah, I would love to, but I just haven't. And so I've kind of been like, I've been under the radar and so yeah, I, I like when I went to these South American Road race,
I like I got noticed by an agent and he was like, yeah, I'll put you on a road team. So I sent him some power numbers and he got me a spot on a team. And then, is it north of Spain? And so like the road scene there is or the amateur road scene is what it was for. So it's like super high level races every weekend.
They're very underrated, like very hard races. Yeah, I had an opportunity to go there. I was gonna sit in an apartment with this like Costa Rican kid I met in Panama. And it was gonna be pretty cool. And I was pretty, I was pretty, decided I was doing that. And so, and then what happened was I had negotiated this guest ride spot for, to go to B W R Kansas In B w R or no, no big sugar in Arkansas.
And yeah, I like. . I just got picked up by the ma la team and I was just like, the vibe of the team was really good and I was like, man, you guys are making this, this decision a lot harder. And I literally had a decision to decide like that week. And you had to, you had a
[00:16:29] Craig Dalton: successful gravel season last year in 2022, right?
[00:16:33] Ian Lopez de San Roman: People say it was like this breakout season, but I mean I didn't even have that crazy of results or anything. I just kind. Just put my, put myself in as many races as I could. Like I basically had no sponsors. Supportful helped me out a little bit with some kits and I just was like, all right let's make a mark.
And yeah, I just got myself like I see like where I had friends in the country and be like, all right, I'll go to that gravel race. I can stay at their house. And so,
[00:16:58] Craig Dalton: and also probably fortunate that you've got the Grasshopper series in your backyard. Yeah. So you can hit all those. At this point, MIGS done such an amazing job with that series.
They're both so much fun and so competitive that if you can get your name on the top step there for the series as you did, that's huge. Like people are gonna take
[00:17:17] Ian Lopez de San Roman: notice. Yeah. I don't know. I don't, I feel like the series win wasn't that big of a deal last year. Like I, I was like, whatever. It's just it's another series when I didn't actually win the race.
[00:17:28] Craig Dalton: ,
I'm gonna have to hype you up as that is a big deal winning the Grasshopper series. And why don't you talk about some of the other races that you did and how they performed at the
[00:17:36] Ian Lopez de San Roman: bws. I switched to gravel as I was like, I'm traveling all over the country and then I have this series in my backyard that's like world class.
And so that's where my kind of switch to gravel came. And I was like, I always knew I wanted to do longer events and I realized my power profiles more built for that. And so like I switched to that. I kind of started over a year off with some grasshoppers and then I went to B W R San Diego.
And I, like I met, , Michael Marks the, the kind of BWR founder. And the story is like I double flighted the first day. I like made it like I, I closed this big old gap. I made it back to the front group. People were like, whoa, whoa, okay, who is this little kid in the group? And then, and then I like, and then I started like barfing at like hour five or six or something and I was like, gone.
Gone. And I finished like 17th. So it wasn't like a super great day. And then I. And then they hit the wafer the next day and I was like, yeah, let's trace the wafer. Like this will be, this will be super fun. And then it was in a front group, and then I. , like I hit a pothole going like 35 and no one had called it out in the group of four of us.
I was holding on my water bottle and I just yard sailed and so I like cracked my bar. I was like, I was super scraped up and so then Michael Marks picked me up off the road and he was like, dude, and like you were about to get second. And he was like super, he was like super bummed for me and so I actually it was kind of a get, I don't know, it was kind of weird, like it was that really.
That was a kind of pivotal moment in the season where he I met him, we had a really great like connection and so then we kinda drove around the rest of the day. I was like bleeding all over the inside of his Bronco and yeah, like he had kind of helped me. He was like, dude, you're really fast.
He kinda helped me get to the rest of his races. And so then I did the B W R series and then I finished fifth like overall. And so I didn't like, I didn't really think that was possible, but it was a pretty big result with. with having STNA win and then like Griffin and Brennan. So like it was kind of big names and I was like, whoa.
Like I'm really standing on the podium with Yeah. Giants right now. Yeah,
[00:19:38] Craig Dalton: that's huge. So then you decided, as you mentioned, you kind of made that connection with the La Mazda team. Yeah. You got an opportunity to race with them as an option in 2023. Yeah. Did you decide to do that before you got accepted to the Grand Prix?
[00:19:53] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Yeah, I did kind of take that gamble cuz I. . If I, if I don't get in the Grand Prix, like everyone kept telling me I could get in and I was like, I, I don't know. There's a chance I don't get in. And yeah I was kind of planning on doing most of the races anyways, except and maybe I probably wouldn't have done Unbound if I hadn't got in.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. But
[00:20:13] Craig Dalton: obviously like the, the Grand Prix creates a lot of structure to the season. Yeah, because you've got. Seven events, six, you know, you get to drop whatever that you need to focus on as you think. Does that change your mentality going into the year or do you and your coach have that kind of figured out like how you're gonna prepare for these different
[00:20:31] Ian Lopez de San Roman: events?
I think we're gonna play it like, and see how it starts out and so I don't know. I'll go in the sea with pretty good farm hopefully, and then we'll see how it goes from there. Yeah, I don't know, it doesn't really change anything. I think. I like, I think it, I find it I can kind of race into form and so I can, yeah, like I basically was doing like last, last season, I think there was like, I had six consecutive race weekends and it was just like Grasshopper, Nike race, other gravel race, grasshopper.
And it was just like back to back to back to back. And it like, I was hitting at a hundred, like after Sea Otter, I came out with 150 ctl and then, . I got one of the whatever, like Sea Otter sickness was going around that like everyone had. I got something in there and I was like so wiped out for Sea Otter last year.
It was so bad. But yeah, I don't know. I'm excited for the season. I don't really, I'm not gonna put too much oh, what's the Grand Prix? I'm just gonna treat it as another race. Yeah. Do your
[00:21:29] Craig Dalton: thing and be consistent along the way. It sounds like given your background with the Nica mountain bike racing and obviously the gravel experience you have, it's not.
A roadie going into the series being intimidated by, you know, the mountain bike style racing, the mountain, actual mountain bikes race you're gonna do. Is there anything on the calendar that does seem intimidating in the
[00:21:49] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Grand Prix to you? Obviously Unbound, but honestly I think big sugar is the one I'm like the most apprehensive about.
Cuz like this last year I went to Pig Sugar and I got six. And I was just like, so done. So I finished the race. I don't even know why I finished the race. It's just part of I don't, I don't really quit on races, but it was just so stupid. Like it was like 17 miles in. I flatted it and then I like put all my like CO2 s and plugs in that tire and then like it was gone.
And then I was like, well, and then I had tube and so I went. , I went to this Arkansas local's house. I like knocked on his door and was like, yo, you got a pump? And so I rode up his driveway and everything. So I went to his garage and I just tuned my bike up, like we pumped up my tires. And so like I had already lost like 20 minutes in the first like 17 miles of the race.
And then it was just like flat after flat after flat. And then like it was so early in the race, no one was giving me tubes. So yeah, I was honestly like a little. I'm, I'm honestly like, oh, I have to really go back to big sugar. That's like what I'm not looking forward to, but whatever it'll be. Yeah.
Maybe some tire
[00:22:54] Craig Dalton: inserts and some different tires,
[00:22:56] Ian Lopez de San Roman: man, next year. Oh, like the bike I was running, I could only fit, like I was running 30 eights that measured forties and that was like the biggest, and it was like rub on the front derailer and there was like rubbing on the frame, and so I. I'm maxed, I'm totally maxed.
And every, I was running like 45 psi, which is like, everyone was like, well, like Ste had told me, no wonder you flat as you just bounced off the rocks. And and I was like, come on. Like I'll doing everything I can. Not flat , but. So
[00:23:24] Craig Dalton: this, this season what, what is your equipment choice?
[00:23:27] Ian Lopez de San Roman: What are you riding?
I'm on the LA sla. Yeah, it's a sweet bike. It's pretty light. Yeah, I have a couple different setups. I can kind of run it. But yeah,
[00:23:34] Craig Dalton: having just helped you take it off your car, it's definitely a light rig. Yeah. It look like it could take a bigger tire than what you were describing from last
[00:23:40] Ian Lopez de San Roman: year.
It takes if you can put like a 2.5 on it, and I, I'll just say I'll never, I'm not gonna be running that ever. But , it's cool. I I have mud clearance. Yeah. If Unbounding is mud, you know,
[00:23:54] Craig Dalton: I think pros of these days, everybody likes to take a little bike packing trip, so maybe you can
[00:23:58] Ian Lopez de San Roman: get some two fines off.
Yeah, maybe I'll do that.
[00:23:59] Craig Dalton: Is there any particular event in, in the Lifetime series or otherwise that you're very excited about
[00:24:05] Ian Lopez de San Roman: for this year? I would say Leadville, like I kind of showed up last year and like I feel like I kind of showed that like I did have some potential to do a little better at that event and so I'm excited for that one.
I think I'll probably I'll, that's probably like my, that Target one, maybe Crusher and the Tusher as well. . I don't know, as I live at two level, but I seem to actually like the altitude. Like I can adjust. I think at least I think I can adjust pretty quick. And
[00:24:30] Craig Dalton: do you, do you feel like, the way you're built and the way you ride, are you, would you categorize yourself as more of a climber?
[00:24:36] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Yeah, I still haven't hit those those world tour power numbers, like the people in the, the series. But I would say I have the body type of a climber and I'm, I. I'm on the way to developing the numbers to have as a climber.
[00:24:48] Craig Dalton: Yeah. Nice. Well, it's gonna be super exciting to see how you do. I am always rooting for the NorCal guys and
[00:24:55] Ian Lopez de San Roman: girls to do well.
Thank you. Yeah, I'm excited. I think we've got some of the
[00:24:59] Craig Dalton: best training in the world, and, , you're a product of that environment. Just all the great roads and great mountain bike trails you have up in Sonoma County.
[00:25:07] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Yeah, yeah. We definitely have it going on here. Yeah, I'm super excited.
[00:25:14] Craig Dalton: awesome. Well, thanks for coming over to the studio and if I don't see you before, I'll see you down at Sea
[00:25:19] Ian Lopez de San Roman: Otter. Yeah, I'll see you there. Thank you.
Big, thanks to Ian for stopping by and talking to us. I hope you enjoyed getting to know em, and you are as excited as I am to see how he fairs throughout the year and the lifetime grand Prix. As you guys know, I've got a strong bias to the Northern California athletes. So I'm super excited to see another one joining our strong contingent to compete throughout this gravel season.
A big, thanks goes out to our friends at logos components for sponsoring this episode. Make sure to check them firstname.lastname@example.org. If you're interested in connecting with me, I encourage you to join the ridership. That's www.theridership.com. That's a free global cycling community. If you're able to support the show, please buy me a coffee.com/the gravel ride or ratings and reviews are hugely appreciated. Until next time here's to finding some dirt under your wheels.