Today I’m talking with Professor George Williams AO. George is the Deputy Vice-Chancellor, of Planning and Assurance, Anthony Mason Professor and Scientia Professor at UNSW. He has written and edited 37 books, including on the Uluru Statement from the Heart, Federalism, Terrorism, Human Rights, National Security and Social Justice. Suffice to say I am talking to another leading expert on regulation.

Today George and I discussed the role of corruption, truth and regulation in Australian politics. In December 2018, Scott Morrison promised that if elected, he would establish a federal Independent Commission Against Corruption. A draft exposure Bill was introduced in 2020, but has been roundly criticised by experts, academics, and the legal community, stating that it is woefully inadequate, and that it would conceal, rather than reveal and address, corruption. In that time, we have seen the normalisation of scandals regarding the potential misuse of public money, including through independent report from the Australian Auditor General. It is not an exaggeration to say that we sit at the top of a slippery slope, and if we don’t get off now by creating good accountability measures on government to prevent corruption, it’s not clear where we will end up.

An important conversation.

Timestamps:

• Why regulation matters to George (3:00)
• Why we need to move beyond the “all politicians lie” approach (4:30)
• The limitations of the Commonwealth Government’s proposed ICAC (10:00)
• Why the NSW ICAC model is receiving unwarranted criticism (14:00)
• Explaining what Australia looks like if we continue down a path without anti-corruption protections (16:00)
• What George would like you to do today (19:00)