Recording during Config 2024, this bonus episode of The Design Systems Podcast features long-time friends of the Pod, Jina Anne and Adekunle Oduye. They share their fresh takes on the latest Figma keynote, including the buzz around AI-generated designs and the revamped Figma UI. The conversation explores the future of design systems, deeper code integrations, and personalized user experiences enabled by AI. Plus, Jina and Adekunle give a sneak peek into their upcoming book! View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestJina Anne is a designer, developer, and community advocate. She founded Clarity (ClarityConf.com), the premier design systems community conference, and organizes meet-ups in the San Francisco area.).Jina is also a published author and public speaker. Adekunle Oduye is UX engineer specializing in design systems, front-end development and prototyping. He is also an avide travel fan, host of the Code & Pixels Podcast, and working with Jina Anne to write a book. HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Today’s episode features Ashley Willard and Sarah Kimball (Skim) from Apiture, a smallish fintech company with big enterprise ambitions for its design system. Host Christ Strahl chats with Ashley and Skim about the challenges and opportunities their small team faces trying to navigate the complexities of building a design system that unifies the look and feel of different products and technologies and helps accelerate product delivery. Whether you're working in a large enterprise or a growing startup, their story provides valuable lessons on creating and maintaining effective design systems.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestAshley is the Director of Product Design at Apiture and has worked in design and UX for 20+ years across many industries. She lives in Durham, NC.Skim is a Design Systems nerd who has been working in this space since 2018. She currently works as a Senior UX Engineer at Apiture.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Chris Strahl welcomes Dave Calleja back to the podcast to discuss the changing nature of design systems, integrating AI into the human creative process, and how to use behavior data for real-time design adaptations. Dave shares his views on the importance of design systems to customer experiences and how modern tools help scale personalized experiences that align with brand vision. Tune in to discover how the future of design systems is being shaped by AI, automation, and personalized content.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestDave leads the design practice at Merkle and dentsu in Australia-New Zealand as well as their Design Systems offering globally. He is deeply passionate about the role design plays creating in exceptional, memorable and transformative customer experiences. Right now, he’s focused on helping teams deliver a clear experience vision to every moment in the customer journey. You can connect with Dave on LinkedIn.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.TranscriptChris Strahl [00:00:00]:Hi, and welcome to the Design Systems podcast. This podcast is about the place where design and development overlap. We talk with experts to get their point of view about trends in design code and how it relates to the world around us. As always, this podcast is brought to you by Knapsack. Check us out at knapsack.cloud. If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or generally tell us what you think, go ahead and tweet us at thedspod. We'd love to hear from you. Hey, everyone.Chris Strahl [00:00:22]:Welcome to the design Systems podcast. I'm your host, Chris Strahl. Today I'm here with a repeat guest, Dave Calleja. Dave, it's so great to have you back. I know you're in the midst of a little bit of career reorganization, so why don't you talk about what you're doing these days?Dave Calleja [00:00:36]:Thanks, Chris. Really excited to be here again and really looking forward to the conversation. So my role has changed a bit since we last spoke. I'm responsible for experience design across Dentsu and Merkel in AnZ, and I'm also really excited to be leading our global design systems capability across Merkel.Chris Strahl [00:00:53]:Well, hey, it's great to have you back. It's been a long time coming. You were actually reminding me before the show that we used to record these asynchronously, like, with a ton of different software and everything like that. And, like, it's actually a different world of podcasting now that you've returned, so eager to have you back on, get kind of an update. And also, you know, one of the things that sparked this conversation was a post about the use of AI in design systems, and so I'm stoked to talk about it.Dave Calleja [00:01:18]:Yeah, likewise. You know, the world is changing so much faster since we last spoke. Like, we've been in contact on a number of different fronts, but since we last spoke, and what good looks like in the world of design systems and what p

Today on the podcast, we talk to Meredith Van Lier, the director of product management at ServiceNow. Chris and Meredith discuss the unique evolution of ServiceNow's design system and its shift towards a more flexible and user-centric design approach, emphasizing collaboration, automation, and accessibility. Learn about the strategic vision, collaborative efforts, and meticulous attention to quality defining ServiceNow's design system.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestMeredith Van Lier is the Director of Product Management, leading a team of product managers responsible for the Horizon Design System and UX foundations at ServiceNow. She provides product direction and strategy, focusing on driving modern experiences by enabling customers to design and build great experiences through the use of the design system. Meredith has more than 15 years of experience across enterprise, finance and consumer spaces.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Welcome to another episode of The Design Systems Podcast! In honor of Global Accessibility Awareness Day, we're thrilled to have Daniel Henderson-Ede, an accessibility specialist, here to discuss the need for and challenges of making inclusive design experiences for those with disabilities, and how design systems can help. Daniel shares why and how accessibility considerations should influence every decision in design systems to create better, more inclusive products. We get into the importance of theme management, and the latest updates in accessibility standards. Join us as we navigate the critical intersections of design, accessibility, and system thinking to shed light on how we can enhance user experiences on a grand scale.View the transcript for this episode Check out our upcoming events.GuestDaniel Henderson-Ede (he/him) is an Accessibility Designer for design systems at Pinterest. He loves working alongside designers, engineers, and leaders to advocate for accessibility at scale, with the aim of creating equitable experiences for disabled users. He has also previously used his design system knowledge to publish a collection of accessibility annotation kits whilst at CVS Health.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

On this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, we're thrilled to have Beau Ulrey, the Design System Manager at U.S. Bank, join host Chris Strahl live at the Kiln space in Portland. Today’s episode deep dives into the intricate world where design meets development. Beau will share his fascinating journey from a design and photography background to becoming a pioneer in interaction design at IBM, and his current influential role at U.S. Bank. Beau and Chris discuss the vital role design systems play in building customer trust through consistency, and how U.S. Bank’s design system is tailored to meet diverse customer needs across various platforms. We’ll also unpack the complexities of design codes and the transformative impact of well-integrated design systems in the banking industry.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestBeau Ulrey leads and manages the Shield Design System team at U.S. Bank. He's passionate about using empathy and good design to help people reach their goals. Whether working as a designer, coach or manager, his goal is to uncover what people need to create better experiences and tools. He writes about design systems and product design practices on Medium (@beauulrey) and talks them as well from time to time.When away from the screen, Beau can be found hiking in the PNW, splashing in the Pacific with his kiddos and toting his camera along the way.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Join host Chris Strahl as he welcomes our guest Scott Strubberg to the Design Systems Podcast. Scott is a product manager and a key figure behind IBM's Carbon Design System. Today’s conversation unravels the complexities and innovations of integrating brand consistency across digital and physical realms. Chris and Scott explore how feedback and community contributions shape the system's evolution, and delve into IBM's unique "brand first" approach. Tune in to discover the strenuous yet rewarding process of managing design systems at scale and the significant role of community and partnerships in driving a design system forward. View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestScott Strubberg is a Product Manager, Front-end developer, Designer, and Educator. Though his career has taken many forms over the years, a common thread of connecting technology to the people who need it has always been present. He spends most of his day rallying designers and developers around a common cause. When he’s not doing that, he’s a full-time parent along with his wife and their three boys.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

We sit down with Brad Frost, a leading voice in design systems. Together, we explore the critical intersection between adaptable design systems and brand identities, unveiling the secrets to creating components that not only function seamlessly across platforms but also resonate with diverse brand aesthetics. Listen in as we discuss the layers of a successful design system, from global frameworks to the 'recipes' that define specific use cases, and highlight the importance of industry-wide component standardization. This thought-provoking conversation with Brad Frost promises to elevate your approach to design systems.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestBrad Frost is a design system consultant, front-end developer, speaker, writer, musician, and artist located in beautiful Pittsburgh, PA. As a principal and design system consultant at Big Medium, he helps teams establish and evolve design systems, establish more collaborative workflows, and create better software together.. He is the author of the book Atomic Design, which introduces a methodology to create and maintain effective design systems. He co-hosted the Style Guides Podcast and has helped create several tools and resources for web designers, including Pattern Lab, Styleguides.io, Style Guide Guide, This Is Responsive, Death to Bullshit, and more.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Informatica's design and AI director, Ranjeet Tayi doing us on the Design Systems Podcast to discuss AI's transformative impact on design systems, elucidating the shift from static products to dynamic, personalized AI-driven experiences. Chris and Ranjeet navigate through the intricacies of AI's influence on crafting hyper-personalized interfaces, the burgeoning role of predictive analytics in UIs, and the ascendance of voice and text as forefronts of design. The discussion extends to the integration of AI in chatbots, the pivotal role of open-source tools, and the breakthroughs in creativity AI has facilitated in areas like movie and music production. Furthermore, we probe into the indispensable role of design systems in fostering cohesive components, enhancing personalized branding, and amplifying user engagement through continuous learning. Our conversation culminates by highlighting the convergence of AI and design, underlining the significance of structured data, ethical considerations, and AI's capability to redefine the software development lifecycle.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestRanjeet Tayi, Director of AI Experience at Informatica, brings 18+ years of UX and AI leadership, advocating GOOD DATA & GOOD DESIGN. Worked at SumTotal, PURE IT Usability Research, and co-founding Mind Visions, he holds 5 patents and is an extraordinary recipient, with a background in Philosophy in Mass Communication & Design Management. Recognized as a speaker, author, and design awards judge, Ranjeet actively serves on non-profit boards & design councils.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Chris and Shawn explore how design tools shape final products, emphasizing the crucial role of managing elements like forms and tables. Shawn shares insights on uniting Adobe departments for greater cohesion and how Spectrum 2 reflects organizational change. They discuss AI integration in design interfaces, drawing parallels with Apple's iPhone design evolution, highlighting AI's potential to revolutionize user experiences. Hear about intricacies of translating visual designs into functional code and maintaining brand consistency across product suites. They reflect on the challenges and excitement of problem-solving iterations, the evolution of design systems, and aligning brand with user experience.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestAs a Senior Director of Experience Design at Adobe, Shawn Cheris runs Spectrum—an organization responsible for the overall brand and experience of all Adobe products—with teams focused on design systems, brand, iconography, content strategy, engineering, prototyping, and more. Outside of work, Shawn is also a father and husband and enjoys building (physical) things, photography, making music, cooking, baking, and a million other hobbies he wishes he had more time for. HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, we explore the intricate world of theme management in complex design systems at Intuit. Nate Baldwin, Principal Designer at Intuit, shares a revolutionary framework for design tokens, enhancing governance and accessibility. We learn about Figma's role in color swapping and Intuit's theming engine for granular adjustments. Discover the balance between brand integrity and user personalization, and how tools like Leonardo and Proportion support adaptive theming. Join us for insights into personalized internet design and the challenges of thematic flexibility with Intuit's Nate Baldwin.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestNate Baldwin is a Principal Product Designer on the Intuit Design System team. Nate is experienced with multi-brand theming, adaptive color systems, and design tokens. He is the creator of Leonardocolor.io, Proportio.app, and the interactive color guide ColorAndContrast.com. Connect with Nate at https://natebaldw.in.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, we invite you to join us as we engage in a conversation with David Müller, a product designer and design systems lead at one of the world’s top financial institutions. Together, we dive deep into the intricate landscape of banking systems, exploring the complexities of equipping problem solvers with the necessary tools. Gain insights into the importance of flexibility over a rigid "super component" and the significance of considering diverse user contexts. Join Chris and David as they discuss how AI is reshaping empathetic design systems, deliberate breakpoints for personalization, David's innovative design system, and the concept of an anti-fragile system. They emphasize cultivating patterns for innovation and balancing creativity with structure. Explore the future of UX/UI in an AI-driven world as they challenge conventional design practices in this thought-provoking episode.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestDavid Müller is a product and systems design lead who believes that HOW we do things is as important as WHAT we do. He spends a big part of his day bringing architecture, development, and product teams closer together to build products that make a real difference in the lives of their users, and do so more predictably.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

PJ Onori, a design systems veteran since 2011 and a driving force behind Pinterest's Gestalt system, talks about the transformative impact of design systems on product development, potentially reshaping the job landscape in design and engineering. In this episode, PJ recounts a pivotal experience at Disney, highlighting the delicate balance between productivity gains and workforce dynamics.We explore the benefits and hurdles of design systems, emphasizing the need for systems thinking, criticality, and adaptability in today's job market. Discover how new hires are shaping future cultures by embracing these systems, and how design systems foster collaboration between design and engineering teams, beyond efficiency and ROI. PJ shares insights into overcoming resistance to design constraints and empowering designers within boundaries to unleash creativity. This episode is essential for understanding the interplay between creativity, structure, and the evolving landscape of product design and development.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestPJ has been working on design systems off and on since 2011 for companies such as General Electric, Disney and Pinterest. PJ is keynote speaker at the Design Systems Leadership Summit in San Francisco on April 18, 2024. If you're looking to connect with PJ and other leaders transforming the world of digital product development, submit your application to attend.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Join us for a milestone episode of The Design Systems Podcast, featuring Brian Dorsey, a key contributor to Mastercard's groundbreaking design system MADE. Explore how integrating designers into infrastructure teams has revolutionized collaboration. Discover how Mastercard leverages its design system to drive business forward with insights on accessibility, performance, and themability. Learn about per-component versioning and system-level versioning and how they accelerate product development.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestBrian Dorsey is a Director of Platform Product Management at Mastercard Data & Services, with a focus on building a development platform that accelerates time to market for products and provides a great developer experience. He treats the design system as front end infrastructure and a key piece of the overall platform.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

On this episode of DSP, we welcome guest Jackie Lai, a lead UX designer at OPIS, a Dow Jones company, with a rich background in interactive and product design. Explore Jackie's diverse design journey from web to physical products and the transformation of design tools. Discover the importance of cross-functional collaboration and the perpetual evolution of design systems. Jackie shares insights on balancing uniformity and flexibility, creating adaptable systems for mass production, and seeking continuous learning in the field. View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestJackie Lai is deeply committed to fostering team empowerment through collaboration, shared services, and infrastructure design that ultimately benefits our end users. With over two decades of experience, she has honed her interdisciplinary skill set working in a wide variety of settings from startups to established giants. When not working, you'll find her exploring the globe, connecting with nature, practicing yoga, and savoring the art of preparing and enjoying matcha.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

In this episode of The Design Systems Podcast, we’re joined by guest Kevin Muldoon, Lead Design Technologist/Design Systems at Dow Jones, to discuss the concepts of alexandrian patterns and their application in design systems. We explore the idea of themes as reusable objects to solve specific design problems, discussing the challenges and potential solutions in creating composable and scalable design systems. The conversation dives deep into the evolution of design methodologies and the democratization of the creative process.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestKevin Muldoon is a designer, programmer, writer and speaker on Design Systems and a Lead Design Technologist at Dow Jones. He created the Genome Color Tool palette generator and advocates the study of Game Design to create Design Systems at scale.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Curt Schreiber, Chief Creative Officer at VSA Partners, joins us for a compelling conversation on the multifaceted nature of design systems. We explore how these intricate frameworks must cater to a diverse array of users and stakeholders, highlighting the need for design systems to personify the organization's character. Curt shares his insights on maintaining design systems that are not only comprehensive and scalable but also flexibly attuned to the global audiences they serve. Throughout the episode, we address the importance of co-creation, continuous learning, and governance in the ever-expanding world of design.Tune in to witness Curt's balanced view on the role of AI in asset creation and system management, while he weighs in on the prospect of centralizing control versus nurturing a rich ecosystem of design assets. The discussion encapsulates the pivotal role of design systems in strategic business conversations, underscoring their ability to reshape customer engagement and drive organizational change.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestCurt Schreiber is the heart of VSA design. He currently guides VSA’s creative philosophy, and is responsible for establishing the office’s design standards and offerings. Throughout his 30-year tenure with the company, Curt has been essential in the agency’s transition from a boutique design firm to a brand-led customer experience agency. Curt has decades of experience working with internationally-recognized global brands, and his client list includes VSA’s most prominent clientele. He also serves as an influential thought leader within the creative industry. Most recently, Curt was named one of Chicago’s most influential designers and included in AIGA’s This is Chicago. Curt’s work has been recognized by more than 100 international design and communications organizations, publications and competitions including the AIGA, Cannes Lions, Cooper Hewitt, Communication Arts, Graphis and the Society of Typographic Arts. His work is also included in the permanent collection of the U.S. Library of Congress.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Jina Anne and Adekunle Oduye join host Chris Strahl in a candid conversation that explores career pathways within the evolving realm of design systems amidst the latest market conditions. They share valuable insights on how the key to thriving in uncertain times is through understanding the nuanced dance between business language and design practice. Jina, renowned for her pioneering efforts in design tokens at Salesforce, illustrates the importance of scalability and care for user experience. Adekunle, drawing from his experience as lead design engineer at Plaid, discusses the intricate balancing act of adopting new technologies while maintaining user trust and meeting business objectives.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.SpeakersJina (they/she) is a design systems advocate. They founded Clarity, a design systems community conference, and they maintain the Design Systems Slack. Jina co-chairs the Design Tokens Community Group. And on the Sass core team, they lead the brand and website design and development. Jina is also recognized as a Google Developers Expert (in Web Technologies [UI and Tooling]). Jina has been making websites as a hobby for about 30 years. They’ve worked professionally in the industry for 22 years (19 of those years working with design systems). They have been said to be one of the most cheerful goths.Adekunle Oduye (Add-eh-koon-lay Oh-due-yay) is an UX Engineer born / breed / based in Brooklyn, New York. Currently he's at Plaid, where he's helping to build Threads, Plaid's official design system. Outside of work he's a coach, speaker, and co-hosts the Code and Pixels podcast. He's very passionate about design systems, prototyping, and front-end development. When he's not building software, you can probably find him reading up on Stoicism or planning my next adventure.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, we discuss the evolution of design systems with special guest Matt Weinberg, Senior Product Designer at Angi. Matt has a passion for empathy-driven design solutions and shares his unconventional career path that led him to tackle the challenge of refining and improving the design systems at Angi. He reveals how he approached the initial state of the design system, identified user needs, and implemented incremental improvements. Matt also shares the importance of gathering user feedback, conducting usability tests, and embracing a collaborative approach between designers and engineers. His insights provide a valuable roadmap for anyone navigating the complex world of design systems.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestMatt Weinberg is a systems-specialized product designer from Brooklyn, NY, currently working on design systems for Angi. He is largely focused on design system ergonomics, designer-engineer collaboration, tooling + workflows, accessibility, and keeping systematic UI creative + fun.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

Josh Clark and Chris Strahl dive into an in-depth discussion about navigating the digital landscape amidst economic unpredictability. They discuss the intricacies of building and maintaining design systems in large organizations, addressing the challenges of scaling, and emphasizing the strategic value of digital investments. Josh, an advocate for design systems as capital expenditure, shares his expertise on how these systems contribute to product development, impact revenue, and enhance customer retention, all while ensuring a balance between innovation and automation.View the transcript of this episode.Check out our upcoming events.GuestJosh Clark is the founder and principal of Big Medium, a digital agency that specializes in big design, helping complex organizations design at scale. He‘s a UX design leader who guides projects to build design systems and transform digital organizations through emerging technology, process, and user experience. At Big Medium, Josh’s clients include Caterpillar, United Airlines, UPS, the Cigna Group, Dotdash Meredith, Pfizer, and many others.HostChris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.SponsorSponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.